How much that the LDS tells me can I believe?
- Thread starter violakat03
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Why can't the LDS bill his time or charge for the education he offers? The current model where you "pay" for the intangibles through gear purchases is the problem. How can people value things that aren't obvious if the LDS is making no effort to point them out and "price" their value? Internet sales will eventually force LDSs to do this anyway if they want to stay in business. People look at gear as a commodity which means the low cost providers will be the survivors -- that means large volume internet sellers. LDSs need to differentiate themselves by their services and get paid for them when they provide them. Why not charge a "fitting fee" when the LDSs measure someone for their drysuit which you'll rebate if they buy from you? Seems to me there are a lot of chargeable and price able services that could be enumerated. Discounting labour is never one of my favorite tactics. Discounting materials is much preferable.
I always try to buy from the LDS. However, you have to know what is a fair price. Do your research and compare. If his price is out of whack then by all means look elsewhere. One good resource to compare the quality of products is Scuba Diving Magazine. I have ordered online and had great service.
H20Bubbles
Contributor
Start Thread Hijack
You know, you can even get air compressors online now days as well.
The LDS have to wake up and realize that today's society is operating under a different business model and their customers have expectations of customer service and fair pricing. If they can offer both of these to their customers then they will grow a loyal customer base that will allow them to stay in business.
And one last comment...
Why can't the LDS increase their prices for training? I find it a little rediculous that the cost of OW training is less than most LDS want you to pay for fins.
You realize that most states have programs where people pay $400 to learn to ride motorcycles? Training is a service that they could provide and charge for.
I for one would be willing to pay more for training due to the expertise of the instructor.
End Thread Hijack
Anyhow, my recommendation is to still shop around. Know what the internet pricing on your gear is and see if the LDS will match. They might not match $ for $ but you should still have the satisfaction that you are getting a good deal.
You know, you can even get air compressors online now days as well.
The LDS have to wake up and realize that today's society is operating under a different business model and their customers have expectations of customer service and fair pricing. If they can offer both of these to their customers then they will grow a loyal customer base that will allow them to stay in business.
And one last comment...
Why can't the LDS increase their prices for training? I find it a little rediculous that the cost of OW training is less than most LDS want you to pay for fins.
You realize that most states have programs where people pay $400 to learn to ride motorcycles? Training is a service that they could provide and charge for.
I for one would be willing to pay more for training due to the expertise of the instructor.
End Thread Hijack
Anyhow, my recommendation is to still shop around. Know what the internet pricing on your gear is and see if the LDS will match. They might not match $ for $ but you should still have the satisfaction that you are getting a good deal.
jpsexton
Contributor
The irony is that the OP would save enough on two full sets of gear to allmost pay for it with the difference.
realdiver7
Contributor
I haven't read every reply to this thread, and I'm not getting involved in any sideline debates, but based on the prices you are paying and the prices you are being asked to pay, you are paying WAY too much in my opinion. I still believe to this day, even after 14 years, that my certifying LDS still holds a secret grudge against me for buying from another authorized dealer 45 minutes further away because the other dealer's prices were better, and I liked his selections better at that time in my diving career. On top of that, I learned in about two weeks that my certifying LDS shafted me on my mask, fins, booties, snorkel, and cost of the course.
It has taken me 14 years to establish an almost comfortable, but cordial relationship with my certifying LDS. He still won't hire me as a contracted instructor, but I will give him some of my business, provided the prices are reasonable and the service is good, but I won't hesitate to shop around with other dealers, to include buying online from dealers or other individuals, depending on the type of gear I'm buying.
Just remember, you will need your local LDS at some point in time, and you should never burn that bridge, but it doesn't mean you have to get shafted on purchases. If you give in to pressure, then the same tactic will be used on you from now on because it works. If you tactfully stand up for yourself, then maybe your LDS may see the benefits in working with you a little more.
As an instructor, I have resisted the temptation to make a lot of money off of my new students because I know they simply don't know any better. Most will take my word as the "gospel," and buy anything I suggest at any price I say is reasonable, so I have to maintain high moral standards and not lead them in the wrong direction. I try to give them at least three options of where to buy, and then step back and let them decide for themselves. After they settled down from the excitement of the initial course, they would have eventually found out if they'd been taken advantage of, and then I would have lost the many other chances I had to train them in future, more advanced courses. It hurts any instructor or LDS over the long haul if students are taken advantage of in the beginning. Sure wish my certifying LDS would have recognized that because he would have gotten a heck of a lot more business from me and my students over the years.
It burns a (another) hole in my butt to see divers get pressured and shafted by an LDS. You just need to learn to play the game carefully, and keep to yourself as much as possible when you find good deals at locations other than your LDS.
I know I sound awfully opinionated, but I have dealt with this for years! Hope this helps.
It has taken me 14 years to establish an almost comfortable, but cordial relationship with my certifying LDS. He still won't hire me as a contracted instructor, but I will give him some of my business, provided the prices are reasonable and the service is good, but I won't hesitate to shop around with other dealers, to include buying online from dealers or other individuals, depending on the type of gear I'm buying.
Just remember, you will need your local LDS at some point in time, and you should never burn that bridge, but it doesn't mean you have to get shafted on purchases. If you give in to pressure, then the same tactic will be used on you from now on because it works. If you tactfully stand up for yourself, then maybe your LDS may see the benefits in working with you a little more.
As an instructor, I have resisted the temptation to make a lot of money off of my new students because I know they simply don't know any better. Most will take my word as the "gospel," and buy anything I suggest at any price I say is reasonable, so I have to maintain high moral standards and not lead them in the wrong direction. I try to give them at least three options of where to buy, and then step back and let them decide for themselves. After they settled down from the excitement of the initial course, they would have eventually found out if they'd been taken advantage of, and then I would have lost the many other chances I had to train them in future, more advanced courses. It hurts any instructor or LDS over the long haul if students are taken advantage of in the beginning. Sure wish my certifying LDS would have recognized that because he would have gotten a heck of a lot more business from me and my students over the years.
It burns a (another) hole in my butt to see divers get pressured and shafted by an LDS. You just need to learn to play the game carefully, and keep to yourself as much as possible when you find good deals at locations other than your LDS.
I know I sound awfully opinionated, but I have dealt with this for years! Hope this helps.
Actually yes and he sold me a red car, "no red car" was on the top of my shopping list. I called the dealership looking for a car and asked for him because I had met him on a dive trip. I still remember him saying, "I have a red Beretta that would be perfect" and I said, "I don't want a red car", he said, "Now wait a minute let me finish" I had such a good experience I ended up dating and then marrying my salesman
Oh and you CAN buy a car online, you've been able to do it for several years. Know what happens? People still go to the dealer because they want to get their hands on the vehicle before they purchase. Most want to drive it too before plunking down thousands on it.
My husbands dealership is the only new car dealer in a small town. They have been there over 60 years. When the shop started there were lots of new car dealers in the town, each one went under for various reasons. One thing he always says, you can't stay in business this long in a small town by screwing people. It kind of reminds me of a dive shop because long-time customers stop by just to chat.
OK, end rant
Back to our regularly scheduled discussion.Ber :lilbunny:
The auto industry also has a hybrid online system where you browse a dealer's inventory online or build a car, get a price quote that is based on fleet pricing (dealer invoice plus a small markup), then you stop by the dealer to sign the contracts that are all ready to go. The car will already be prepped and ready to go. Of course, you can test drive your vehicle before you sign.
I've done that a few times. You can compare various quotes and use edmunds.com to check out the dealer invoice pricing. You bypass the lot salesman altogether and you can be driving off the lot in your new car in about 20 minutes. I've bought both ways and they seem to recognize that internet buyers are no nonsense. They seem to push the aftermarket and financing options a lot less on the internet buys.
IMHO, I think the really sad part about the LDS/internet saga is that the vast majority of divers want to see LDSs succeed. Unfortunately, some (not all and maybe not even most) do take advantage (sometimes grotesquely) of new divers. I would prefer to support a LDS over the internet as long as I felt I was treated fairly. I currently am fairly happy with one of my LDS's and will probably do some significant business (by my standards) with another. But, I always have to do my homework beforehand and they understand I do do my homework. If I need something they don't carry or can get a significantly better deal on a online piece of equipment that I believe is at least as good as their stuff, I buy online without any reservations. I have to say that the customer service I've received online has been a best practice that the LDSs have yet to match -- but the LDSs I use are getting better.
I'm quite lucky, I have just signed up to re-take my OW as it has been 12 years since I last dived, I asked my LDS to work out a price for a full set of kit as I will be taking my Advanced in the Maldives in August. at first they came back with all the kit less 15% off of retail, I told them that the items they listed were cheaper on simplyscuba.com, so they agreed to match the prices on all the kit.
That is the sort of service I would expect, they might not make as much profit in the start, but at least they know they will get all my business when I need to buy again
That is the sort of service I would expect, they might not make as much profit in the start, but at least they know they will get all my business when I need to buy again
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