Question New to scuba diving, is it a bad instructor?

[NAUI Wowie]

She has no responsibility to say “stop that sheet now?” You use fancy words like power dynamic, that means nothing more to me than “victim”, how do you send a 14 yr old girl out with friends if this “power dynamic” is going to relegate her to a victim?

Bro, already at least one expert has weighed in on the subject. Most women havent taken advanced training courses on how to fend off sexual predators and most women freeze in that situation. And coming back again several times it wasnt blatant to her at first if it was happening. after a few sessions she knew for sure. Heck when I was younger I used to be a very good looking guy. I didnt know it then lol but anyways I had women at work walk up and straight up grab my junk. im 6 2 180 gym fanatic those years. A fighter too when need be not wimpy. In those situations I was taken off guard and froze. Like froze. Now I didnt complain after as they were not unattractive but if it can happen to a big strong confident capable man now imagine a small woman without testosterone. 50,000 years of evolutionary survival genes saying if you are female and small and you fight then you likely die...well you are incorrect man. Most women are not wired genetically like we are.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

What does wrong mean in this context?


How in the heck does he “know it was wrong” when the other participant did not know herself? She had to ask other people and research the situation to come to that conclusion after the fact.

Because he can feel her draw back or feel unease and see her expression when he does several different harrassing things. Men always know. Now you are just playing fake nieve. Oh he didnt know...tee hee... yea right. When he pushed himself up against her backside she froze in the water. There are a million cues men and women pick up on. He absolutely knew that she was afraid.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Yeah like that's going to happen

I have had women grope or touch me at work more than once. and at dance clubs too. WHILE a girlfriend was standing beside me. Hot women and above average looking women sometimes know they can get away with that. Now im not complaining about it mind you but you are wrong. Good looking guys get groped at work all the time. We just dont really mind it. And no im older now so it wouldnt happen now but 20 years ago for women it was game on. even 7 years ago I had women walk up to my desk and put their arms around my shoulder and lean down to look at the screen pressing body parts on my shoulder etc. It happens. Reverse it and a guy doing that to a woman is instant lawsuit.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Saddened to learn of this. I happen to be wearing my "I dive with Clive" T-shirt right now, from Dive Aruba. None of this sounds like Clive, but maybe there's a different instructor.

Edit: I have read further in the thread and I see it was a man called Greg, not Clive. You did the right thing by informing PADI. No one should have to put up with that. I'd say that on Day 1 it should have been obvious. Reminds me of this episode:

Never seen this episode. Just laughed out loud at work and a coworker had to come over and watch it too lol

 

[getwet2]

Dive Aruba has been sold by Clive to Greg

It's sad to hear something like this has happened, both for Pear0123 and the "Dive Aruba" name.

I have used Clive for many, many years and consider him a friend and always had a great experience as well as the other divers on the trips, that is how "Dive Aruba" got so many good reviews. I am not sure how many of the past reviews went along with the sale of the business, probably all of them.

I have also used it since it was sold and had mostly good experiences. The boat got an overhaul, newer engines were added and "Dive Aruba" was on it's way to maintaining it's reputation. There were things that were not very good but nothing that couldn't be corrected with some more experience for the owner.

Please remember that this was NOT Clive but the person who was taking the business over. The person that it was is obviously not running "Dive Aruba" anymore and there is a good chance that he probably will not be in the dive industry in Aruba anymore either.

When someone else takes over the business they might even have to change the name of it, I hope not as the "Dive Aruba" name had a very good reputation, but it's likely that is what will happen. If "Dive Aruba" is sold again, I will be giving them another try as they were always great. A name does not make a business great it is the service they provide but the name and it's reputation are linked and is what gets customers to walk through the door.

There are other dive operators on Aruba that also have very bad reviews and might have a skeleton in their closet.

 

[Sascha314]

Wow this is a bad experience. Have not read everything, but hopefully you find a better way and can finally learn and enjoy scuba diving.

It is not your fault, in retrospective of course one can find a lot of red flags, but unfortunately very often you only really learn this with experience in the field.
I think reporting both to Padi as well as police is the appropriate thing to do.

For future or ither beginners its probably be wise to repeat:
Check with the agency (padi, ssi, naui, ...) if the listing is still active
Do not trust an operator/shop who does not have an active webpage
If you feel uncomfortable you can say no - always.
Same for dives: everyone can abort a dive for whatever reason anytime - and that not be questioned and it is ok.

Personally I can understand it. There is lonwy, an expectation and "its almost over" very hard to say no.

 

[Etmutt]

Thanks for sharing, yes I will report it to PADI. Definitely don't want it to happen to someone else.

please do not stop there ; go to the police as soon as possible as you feel comfortable doing it… scuba agencies have not vetting system for instructors; and are notoriously focusing on the business aspect ; they are by no means the relevant authority here

 

[jimepl]

Hola, Pearl, gusto encontré este foro ayer y no puedo creer lo que encontré, solo quería contarte que ami me pasó lo mismo con la persona que denunciaste, fue en abril del 2024 en Aruba no soy experta en buceo era la segunda vez que buceada, dentro del mar el abuso de mí, intenté sacarlo pero me agarró con fuerza de la cadera, solo el tenía tanque de oxigeno y salvavidas, yo no por lo que me era imposible alejarme de el facilmente, estaba sola y lejos de la playa donde estaban mis amigas, no lo denuncié por miedo ya que el sabía donde estaba mi hotel, tu fuiste más valiente solo me queda agradecerte, lo que necesites puedes contar conmigo

 

[jimepl]

Nothing about this situation as described sounds right.

You mention PADI but go on to say he signed you off as "a level 2 diver". There is not a PADI "Level 2 Diver" certification. Did you get a certification card from a recognized agency? (Pervy Association of Diving Instructors is NOT PADI)

Call PADI immediately and ask about his standing as an instructor. Or whatever agency he said he represented. [OP said actually got the PADI OW cert]

There are a couple of legal avenues to explore (not an attorney and not a law enforcement officer in Canada (or wherever the training took place) so not offered as legal advice, just discussion... )

In some locations, if there is unwanted touching, that can be assault. If there is unwanted touching of certain body parts with the intent toward sexual gratification of any person, that may be sexual assault. An inquiry of local law enforcement may be in order.

If the person was offering services as an instructor certified through a reputable agency (PADI, SSI, NAUI, RAID, IANTD, CMAS, etc...) and they were not, that is likely fraud. That carries both civil and criminal avenues for resolution. An inquiry of local law enforcement may be in order. [OP said actually got the PADI OW cert]

In any case, as others have said it doesn't sound like you got legit training based on your description of the course. Before you actually go and do any diving, I'd meet with a reputable instructor, validate their credentials with the agency they reference (PADI has an online tool -link immediately below), and get complete training, even if it is a repeat.

> > > >

PADI Pro Chek

P.S. I am prompted that PADI may not provide "plastic" cert cards any more as opposed to e-cards?

P.P.S. - edited after reading subsequent replies by OP.

This exercice was lasting 20 minutes top every day but all the other hours were used for proper PADI training. But I will definitely redo another training. It will helps me to remove this unfortunate event.

I did the gear assembly, the e-leaning, the trick underwater with the mask cleaning, removal, swimming, underwater hand sign, give air to my "buddy", etc.

I have received the certification from PADI and have my card with the nub

Thanks everyone, Here is an update.
PADI has contacted me and told me they had expelled the Instructor. I chose to expose him so female & other new diver can be aware. I want to prevent this situation to happen in the future.

https://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowUserReviews-g147248-d1075568-r956115722-Dive_Aruba-Oranjestad_Aruba.html

Expelled PADI Professionals | PADI

List of former PADI Instructors and Divemasters who have been expelled from PADI within the last few years

www.padi.com

Hello Pearl, nice to meet you, I found this forum yesterday and I can't believe what I found, I just wanted to tell you that the same thing happened to me with the person you reported, it was in April 2024 in Aruba, I am not an expert in diving, it was the second time I dived, inside the sea he abused me, I tried to get him out but he grabbed me hard by the hip, only he had an oxygen tank and a life jacket, I didn't so it was impossible for me to get away from him easily, I was alone and far from the beach where my friends were, I did not report him out of fear since he knew where my hotel was, you were braver I can only thank you, whatever you need you can count on me

 

[gage_patton]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

This thread is an object lesson for all of us. Given the eventual outcome (read the thread to the end), this tells us a lot about the world we live in, our preconceived notions and our prejudices. The OP should be congratulated for her courage in asking this question on an open forum.

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Hi everyone, I recently completed my PADI Open Water course and I'd like to share my experience with you. I believe my instructor's behavior was inappropriate, but as a newcomer to scuba diving, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

Hi everyone, I recently completed my PADI Open Water course and I'd like to share my experience with you. I believe my instructor's behavior was inappropriate, but as a newcomer to scuba diving, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

Before the course:
I found a Dive Shop on Tripadvisor with over 200 5-star reviews, which seemed perfect for the Open Water Course. However, the website link wasn't functional, so I reached out to the company on Instagram. They requested to follow me, which I found a bit strange, but I went along with it. The owner (only instructor) and I communicated via WhatsApp to plan the days since I was traveling for the course. He messaged me frequently, which was a bit overwhelming, but I assumed it was to keep in touch since I hadn't made a deposit. He even started liking my Instagram Stories.

I confirmed with him twice that he would provide all the necessary equipment, including a wetsuit. The night before the course, he asked me out for a drink, which I politely declined. Despite feeling uncomfortable, I decided to proceed with the course, considering diving as a community activity.

Day 1:
Upon arrival, I was informed that there was no wetsuit available for me that day, as he wanted to give me a "free" introduction in shallow waters level to gauge my comfort while him sharing his octopus (No Pool). Feeling uneasy in just a swimsuit, I reluctantly went along with it. He positioned himself above me - imagine two planks, one on top of the other. I didn't had a wetsuit, and I could feel something rubbing against my buttocks (I believe he was hard underneath his suit) I honestly had no idea of what he was doing or if it was normal, I was overthinking. we were at 6m dept. Anyways I started to panic, I was scared because it was my first time in deep water. I was alone with him, and he was controlling my air. I was breathing with his octopus and felt vulnerable. I just started to focus on my breathing. He started to massage my upper body. At this point I just froze. We finished and did some skills with my own BCD.

Skills on this day: Mask clearing, swimming without equipement.


Day 2:
The next day, he again claimed to have forgotten the wetsuit, stating it wasn't good for my buoyancy. We started with the tricks (complete mask removal, mask clearing) and then, he claimed that we needed to control my buoyancy. He then proceeded to remove my gear and repeat the exercise from the previous day, with me sharing his air from his octopus while he remained on top of me. I honestly kinda froze and started to focus on my breathing once again. I began to panic once more, unsure if this was standard practice. His behavior escalated when we approached the shore, he started taking inappropriate photos of other women but in the water, further adding to my discomfort. At the end, he stated that someone would come along tomorrow to finish my 2 other dives. At this point I wanted to end the class, but told myself that there was only 1 day remaining and the fact that someone would be there I would feel more comfortable. I didn't knew if it was common practice for new divers (him being on top of me and me sharing his octopus)

Skills on this day: mask clearing, complete mask removal, retrieving my regulator, sharing air & store used equipement.

Day 3:
He asked me a couple of questions in the car (about 5) and then informed me that was my written exam and there was no need to complete a formal exam; that I had passed. He then mentioned he didn't have a wetsuit for me, only a rash guard.

Then, another diver arrived for his refresher. He was quite old, and the instructor became rude to him. Honestly, I felt calmer knowing there would be someone else with us. We completed the 18m dive, and everything went fine. When we reached shore, the older diver asked if he could join us for the next planned dive (my 4th dive due in 30 minutes), but the instructor declined, stating that this dive would be a test for my class.

Once on the beach, the older diver and I started talking, and I could sense the instructor's discomfort about our conversation. He seemed eager for the older diver to leave and began speaking negatively about him behind his back.

Then I began my fourth dive (my instructor said he would bring my BCD but arrived only with his). He repeated the exercise of being on top of me and me using his octopus, which confirmed to me that it was inappropriate. It was only my fourth dive, so I questioned why he didn't do the same exercise with the older man. I believe he wanted him to leave so he could act inappropriately towards me again. This is when i realized is was NOT ok. I felt scared but relieved it was my last dive I was afraid to decline that he would fail me or worst, remove my regulator) At the end, we surfaced, he grabbed my gear, we went back down, and I focused on the skills and enjoying my last dive (without him on top of me), while he was just taking photos.

Skills on this day: how to prepare & store my equipment, mask clearing, safety stop, sharing air, use the compass, inflate my bcd, swim with a non-responsive diver, help a diver, safety procedures,


It took me a few days to process everything. After doing some research, I came to the conclusion that his behavior was highly inappropriate. Not only was I knew nothing in diving, but he was also controlling my regulator (using his octopus), we were at depth, and he was positioned on top of me. I felt completely vulnerable and taken advantage of. Despite this, he certified me as a Open Water level 2 diver, but I honestly don't feel confident enough. What are your thoughts on this situation? Is it normal practice? What should I do? Have you ever reported a PADI ? TBH I feel kinda traumatized, I just wanted to learn to dive and I am left with this unpleasant memory. All of the part of him being on top of me and us sharing his octopus were lasting maximum 20 minutes every day. The other hours were used for the tricks and me diving with my own BCD. Total of hours for the whole class was about 11 hours.

It took me a few days to process everything. After doing some research, I came to the conclusion that his behavior was highly inappropriate. Not only was I knew nothing in diving, but he was also controlling my regulator (using his octopus), we were at depth, and he was positioned on top of me. I felt completely vulnerable and taken advantage of. Despite this, he certified me as a Open Water level 2 diver, but I honestly don't feel confident enough. What are your thoughts on this situation? Is it normal practice? What should I do? Have you ever reported a PADI ? TBH I feel kinda traumatized, I just wanted to learn to dive and I am left with this unpleasant memory. All of the part of him being on top of me and us sharing his octopus were lasting maximum 20 minutes every day. The other hours were used for the skills and me diving with my own BCD. Total of hours for the whole class was about 11 hours.

I hate that this was your experience! Thank you for sharing your insights with us. Very helpful as we look for quality instructors.