Question New to scuba diving, is it a bad instructor?

[tracydr]

Depending on local laws, fondling or unwanted sexual touching can indeed be a criminal offense. Certainly in the US and Canada it is. Not sure about OP's situation because we don't know on what Caribbean island these incidents took place.

His actions go well beyond "unprofessional." Unprofessional conduct would be things like berating students, yelling at them, demeaning them, etc. Rubbing your genitals against someone's buttocks without their consent is WELL past that.

You are essentially victim blaming. You are saying "Well, OP didn't say or do anything to stop it, so the predator might have gotten the impression it was okay to keep going." BS. This instructor knew full well what he was doing was wrong. But he also knew that the way in which he was doing it - pretending that it was part of a skill to be taught, checking her buoyancy, etc. - could give him some amount of "cover." That is absolutely predatory, with malice of forethought, and smacks of someone who has done this many times before.

I'm sorry, but I will not simply agree to disagree on this point. This was 100% on the instructor.

To me,this situation is exactly like a doctor taking advantage of a woman’s annual breast exam and Pap smear. You’re in a compromised position,not really sure what “normal “ should be in many cases and being groped by a trusted professional.

 

[tracydr]

It's sort of funny how gender plays such a strong role here and probably always will. If it was me and the instructor was an attractive she, and day 1 consisted of her climbing on my non-wetsuited back because she told me she forgot to bring it, and she gave me an underwater massage while rubbing against me I would have intentionally failed the mask clearing skill. By now we would be at day 100.

How about if she’s your boss or professor and you’re concerned that if you don’t go along you’ll get fired or fail the class? Now,imagine you have no interest in her and find her interest not only unwanted but repulsive. How would you feel then?

 

[divezonescuba]

There are only a small number of diveshops on Aruba. That is actually the second shop/instructor on Aruba that has been expelled by PADI for the same reason. The first one was one called Mermaid Divers. They continued to operate for a number of years even though the owner was expelled. Hopefully that won't be allowed to happen in this case.

 

[Jdkreigh]

This is absolutely horrible he did this. You absolutely need to report him to PADI. He should never be able to do this to anyone else.
For the most part the diving community is really good and helpful. There are a lot of great people on this site. Maybe someone close by can help you get some proper instruction and help you get comfortable without making you pay again or have to worry about another situation like this again.

 

[LI-er]

How about if she’s your boss or professor and you’re concerned that if you don’t go along you’ll get fired or fail the class? Now,imagine you have no interest in her and find her interest not only unwanted but repulsive. How would you feel then?

Yeah like that's going to happen

 

[NAUI Wowie]

She has no responsibility to say “stop that sheet now?” You use fancy words like power dynamic, that means nothing more to me than “victim”, how do you send a 14 yr old girl out with friends if this “power dynamic” is going to relegate her to a victim?

Bro, already at least one expert has weighed in on the subject. Most women havent taken advanced training courses on how to fend off sexual predators and most women freeze in that situation. And coming back again several times it wasnt blatant to her at first if it was happening. after a few sessions she knew for sure. Heck when I was younger I used to be a very good looking guy. I didnt know it then lol but anyways I had women at work walk up and straight up grab my junk. im 6 2 180 gym fanatic those years. A fighter too when need be not wimpy. In those situations I was taken off guard and froze. Like froze. Now I didnt complain after as they were not unattractive but if it can happen to a big strong confident capable man now imagine a small woman without testosterone. 50,000 years of evolutionary survival genes saying if you are female and small and you fight then you likely die...well you are incorrect man. Most women are not wired genetically like we are.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

What does wrong mean in this context?


How in the heck does he “know it was wrong” when the other participant did not know herself? She had to ask other people and research the situation to come to that conclusion after the fact.

Because he can feel her draw back or feel unease and see her expression when he does several different harrassing things. Men always know. Now you are just playing fake nieve. Oh he didnt know...tee hee... yea right. When he pushed himself up against her backside she froze in the water. There are a million cues men and women pick up on. He absolutely knew that she was afraid.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Yeah like that's going to happen

I have had women grope or touch me at work more than once. and at dance clubs too. WHILE a girlfriend was standing beside me. Hot women and above average looking women sometimes know they can get away with that. Now im not complaining about it mind you but you are wrong. Good looking guys get groped at work all the time. We just dont really mind it. And no im older now so it wouldnt happen now but 20 years ago for women it was game on. even 7 years ago I had women walk up to my desk and put their arms around my shoulder and lean down to look at the screen pressing body parts on my shoulder etc. It happens. Reverse it and a guy doing that to a woman is instant lawsuit.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Saddened to learn of this. I happen to be wearing my "I dive with Clive" T-shirt right now, from Dive Aruba. None of this sounds like Clive, but maybe there's a different instructor.

Edit: I have read further in the thread and I see it was a man called Greg, not Clive. You did the right thing by informing PADI. No one should have to put up with that. I'd say that on Day 1 it should have been obvious. Reminds me of this episode:

Never seen this episode. Just laughed out loud at work and a coworker had to come over and watch it too lol

 

[getwet2]

Dive Aruba has been sold by Clive to Greg

It's sad to hear something like this has happened, both for Pear0123 and the "Dive Aruba" name.

I have used Clive for many, many years and consider him a friend and always had a great experience as well as the other divers on the trips, that is how "Dive Aruba" got so many good reviews. I am not sure how many of the past reviews went along with the sale of the business, probably all of them.

I have also used it since it was sold and had mostly good experiences. The boat got an overhaul, newer engines were added and "Dive Aruba" was on it's way to maintaining it's reputation. There were things that were not very good but nothing that couldn't be corrected with some more experience for the owner.

Please remember that this was NOT Clive but the person who was taking the business over. The person that it was is obviously not running "Dive Aruba" anymore and there is a good chance that he probably will not be in the dive industry in Aruba anymore either.

When someone else takes over the business they might even have to change the name of it, I hope not as the "Dive Aruba" name had a very good reputation, but it's likely that is what will happen. If "Dive Aruba" is sold again, I will be giving them another try as they were always great. A name does not make a business great it is the service they provide but the name and it's reputation are linked and is what gets customers to walk through the door.

There are other dive operators on Aruba that also have very bad reviews and might have a skeleton in their closet.