Question New to scuba diving, is it a bad instructor?

[Pearl0123]

Can someone help me understand something here? The link on TripAdvisor goes to Dive Aruba, and that is where she posted her comments. Then I see the references to DiveZone Aruba, with the name of the person listed as expelled by PADI.

I dived with Dive Aruba years ago, and it was a one-man operation run by a man named Clive Paula. Are we talking about the same operation? The Trip advisor link to Dive Aruba has comments mentioning a man named Greg, not Clive.

Dive Aruba has been sold by Clive to Greg

 

[elgringoperdido]

Saddened to learn of this. I happen to be wearing my "I dive with Clive" T-shirt right now, from Dive Aruba. None of this sounds like Clive, but maybe there's a different instructor.

Edit: I have read further in the thread and I see it was a man called Greg, not Clive. You did the right thing by informing PADI. No one should have to put up with that. I'd say that on Day 1 it should have been obvious. Reminds me of this episode:

 

[johndiver999]

That clip was freaking hilarious! I've never seen it!
I'm so glad the OP was able to identify the culprit.

 

[Kimela]

Thanks everyone, Here is an update.
PADI has contacted me and told me they had expelled the Instructor. I chose to expose him so female & other new diver can be aware. I want to prevent this situation to happen in the future.

https://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowUserReviews-g147248-d1075568-r956115722-Dive_Aruba-Oranjestad_Aruba.html

Expelled PADI Professionals | PADI

List of former PADI Instructors and Divemasters who have been expelled from PADI within the last few years

www.padi.com

Good for you! I wonder how PADI will enforce the expulsion since he still has PADI on his website? How will anyone know to avoid him without seeing the TripAdvisor (so glad you did that review with links). Hopefully, other PADI professionals in Aruba will become aware and help steer people away from him.

 

[boulderjohn]

Good for you! I wonder how PADI will enforce the expulsion since he still has PADI on his website? How will anyone know to avoid him without seeing the TripAdvisor (so glad you did that review with links). Hopefully, other PADI professionals in Aruba will become aware and help steer people away from him.

Enforcement is a problem because no agency has legal authority to do anything about such advertising. The only thing they can do is keep the expelled instructor from certifying students. The TripAdvisor comments mention another individual who may also be a PADI instructor. If so, then the company can still offer PADI instruction through that other instructor.

Another factor is that there is a difference between a dive shop being PADI-affiliated and a dive shop offering PADI instruction through an employee or someone they happen to know. Many years ago, before I was a professional, I reported the worst standards violation I have still ever seen (in Fiji). I got a lengthy response from PADI. It explained that they could only take steps against the instructor (which they did), but the shop was also advertising themselves as a PADI shop, which they were not. There was little PADI could do about that, since they could not control the laws in Fiji. They told the shop not to advertise themselves as a PADI shop, but they had no power to enforce that.

I saw a similar thing in the United States a few years ago. I noticed that a dive operator in Florida that I used frequently had a sign in the story that advertised them as a GUE instructor training facility, yet I never saw them provide any instruction other than through SSI or TDI. I asked the manager about it, and he explained that while no employee of the shop had any GUE instructor credentials, if you wanted to get GUE training, they had the necessary phone number and could call a guy who could provide it. That was apparently fine with GUE.

 

[Kimela]

Enforcement is a problem because no agency has legal authority to do anything about such advertising. The only thing they can do is keep the expelled instructor from certifying students. The TripAdvisor comments mention another individual who may also be a PADI instructor. If so, then the company can still offer PADI instruction through that other instructor.

Another factor is that there is a difference between a dive shop being PADI-affiliated and a dive shop offering PADI instruction through an employee or someone they happen to know. Many years ago, before I was a professional, I reported the worst standards violation I have still ever seen (in Fiji). I got a lengthy response from PADI. It explained that they could only take steps against the instructor (which they did), but the shop was also advertising themselves as a PADI shop, which they were not. There was little PADI could do about that, since they could not control the laws in Fiji. They told the shop not to advertise themselves as a PADI shop, but they had no power to enforce that.

I saw a similar thing in the United States a few years ago. I noticed that a dive operator in Florida that I used frequently had a sign in the story that advertised them as a GUE instructor training facility, yet I never saw them provide any instruction other than through SSI or TDI. I asked the manager about it, and he explained that while no employee of the shop had any GUE instructor credentials, if you wanted to get GUE training, they had the necessary phone number and could call a guy who could provide it. That was apparently fine with GUE.

Wow. It's hard enough to get judges orders enforced in the US, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. I think like a typical American, in terms of 'copyright infringement', etc. There are laws, and we are supposed to follow them. But someone who would commit such a disgusting assault isn't worried about laws in Aruba, the US or elsewhere.

 

[boulderjohn]

Wow. It's hard enough to get judges orders enforced in the US, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. I think like a typical American, in terms of 'copyright infringement', etc. There are laws, and we are supposed to follow them. But someone who would commit such a disgusting assault isn't worried about laws in Aruba, the US or elsewhere.

Remember that he was expelled by PADI. PADI is not a court of law. He is not in any legal trouble. There is no reason he can't continue to operate. He just can't certify students. He can actually even go on to instruct them and just have someone else sign off.

There is an instructor in Arizona who was expelled by NAUI years ago. He just formed a new, bogus certification agency and went on. The last I checked (years ago), the official address of his agency was a vacant lot.

 

[waxrash]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

This thread is an object lesson for all of us. Given the eventual outcome (read the thread to the end), this tells us a lot about the world we live in, our preconceived notions and our prejudices. The OP should be congratulated for her courage in asking this question on an open forum.

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Hi everyone, I recently completed my PADI Open Water course and I'd like to share my experience with you. I believe my instructor's behavior was inappropriate, but as a newcomer to scuba diving, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

Hi everyone, I recently completed my PADI Open Water course and I'd like to share my experience with you. I believe my instructor's behavior was inappropriate, but as a newcomer to scuba diving, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

Before the course:
I found a Dive Shop on Tripadvisor with over 200 5-star reviews, which seemed perfect for the Open Water Course. However, the website link wasn't functional, so I reached out to the company on Instagram. They requested to follow me, which I found a bit strange, but I went along with it. The owner (only instructor) and I communicated via WhatsApp to plan the days since I was traveling for the course. He messaged me frequently, which was a bit overwhelming, but I assumed it was to keep in touch since I hadn't made a deposit. He even started liking my Instagram Stories.

I confirmed with him twice that he would provide all the necessary equipment, including a wetsuit. The night before the course, he asked me out for a drink, which I politely declined. Despite feeling uncomfortable, I decided to proceed with the course, considering diving as a community activity.

Day 1:
Upon arrival, I was informed that there was no wetsuit available for me that day, as he wanted to give me a "free" introduction in shallow waters level to gauge my comfort while him sharing his octopus (No Pool). Feeling uneasy in just a swimsuit, I reluctantly went along with it. He positioned himself above me - imagine two planks, one on top of the other. I didn't had a wetsuit, and I could feel something rubbing against my buttocks (I believe he was hard underneath his suit) I honestly had no idea of what he was doing or if it was normal, I was overthinking. we were at 6m dept. Anyways I started to panic, I was scared because it was my first time in deep water. I was alone with him, and he was controlling my air. I was breathing with his octopus and felt vulnerable. I just started to focus on my breathing. He started to massage my upper body. At this point I just froze. We finished and did some skills with my own BCD.

Skills on this day: Mask clearing, swimming without equipement.


Day 2:
The next day, he again claimed to have forgotten the wetsuit, stating it wasn't good for my buoyancy. We started with the tricks (complete mask removal, mask clearing) and then, he claimed that we needed to control my buoyancy. He then proceeded to remove my gear and repeat the exercise from the previous day, with me sharing his air from his octopus while he remained on top of me. I honestly kinda froze and started to focus on my breathing once again. I began to panic once more, unsure if this was standard practice. His behavior escalated when we approached the shore, he started taking inappropriate photos of other women but in the water, further adding to my discomfort. At the end, he stated that someone would come along tomorrow to finish my 2 other dives. At this point I wanted to end the class, but told myself that there was only 1 day remaining and the fact that someone would be there I would feel more comfortable. I didn't knew if it was common practice for new divers (him being on top of me and me sharing his octopus)

Skills on this day: mask clearing, complete mask removal, retrieving my regulator, sharing air & store used equipement.

Day 3:
He asked me a couple of questions in the car (about 5) and then informed me that was my written exam and there was no need to complete a formal exam; that I had passed. He then mentioned he didn't have a wetsuit for me, only a rash guard.

Then, another diver arrived for his refresher. He was quite old, and the instructor became rude to him. Honestly, I felt calmer knowing there would be someone else with us. We completed the 18m dive, and everything went fine. When we reached shore, the older diver asked if he could join us for the next planned dive (my 4th dive due in 30 minutes), but the instructor declined, stating that this dive would be a test for my class.

Once on the beach, the older diver and I started talking, and I could sense the instructor's discomfort about our conversation. He seemed eager for the older diver to leave and began speaking negatively about him behind his back.

Then I began my fourth dive (my instructor said he would bring my BCD but arrived only with his). He repeated the exercise of being on top of me and me using his octopus, which confirmed to me that it was inappropriate. It was only my fourth dive, so I questioned why he didn't do the same exercise with the older man. I believe he wanted him to leave so he could act inappropriately towards me again. This is when i realized is was NOT ok. I felt scared but relieved it was my last dive I was afraid to decline that he would fail me or worst, remove my regulator) At the end, we surfaced, he grabbed my gear, we went back down, and I focused on the skills and enjoying my last dive (without him on top of me), while he was just taking photos.

Skills on this day: how to prepare & store my equipment, mask clearing, safety stop, sharing air, use the compass, inflate my bcd, swim with a non-responsive diver, help a diver, safety procedures,


It took me a few days to process everything. After doing some research, I came to the conclusion that his behavior was highly inappropriate. Not only was I knew nothing in diving, but he was also controlling my regulator (using his octopus), we were at depth, and he was positioned on top of me. I felt completely vulnerable and taken advantage of. Despite this, he certified me as a Open Water level 2 diver, but I honestly don't feel confident enough. What are your thoughts on this situation? Is it normal practice? What should I do? Have you ever reported a PADI ? TBH I feel kinda traumatized, I just wanted to learn to dive and I am left with this unpleasant memory. All of the part of him being on top of me and us sharing his octopus were lasting maximum 20 minutes every day. The other hours were used for the tricks and me diving with my own BCD. Total of hours for the whole class was about 11 hours.

It took me a few days to process everything. After doing some research, I came to the conclusion that his behavior was highly inappropriate. Not only was I knew nothing in diving, but he was also controlling my regulator (using his octopus), we were at depth, and he was positioned on top of me. I felt completely vulnerable and taken advantage of. Despite this, he certified me as a Open Water level 2 diver, but I honestly don't feel confident enough. What are your thoughts on this situation? Is it normal practice? What should I do? Have you ever reported a PADI ? TBH I feel kinda traumatized, I just wanted to learn to dive and I am left with this unpleasant memory. All of the part of him being on top of me and us sharing his octopus were lasting maximum 20 minutes every day. The other hours were used for the skills and me diving with my own BCD. Total of hours for the whole class was about 11 hours.

I think your questions have been answered. Let me start by just thanking you for posting this. How brave you are! I hope you will try again. Obviously diving underwater is an amazing thing, but what makes it really cool is the community. The shared experiences, the long conversations about today's dive, etc. One of the most valuable aspects of SCUBA is the connection I feel to people from all walks of life. Lawyers, Doctors, Housekeepers it doesn't matter, it breaks down the social barriers. Some of my dearest friends were met thru SCUBA. This makes your situation extremely painful, not only were you assaulted (IMHO), but you were deprived of what should have been a fantastic life experience and introduction to some of the most interesting people on this planet. What a creep!

 

[$cubach!ck]

No appropriate. Notify PADI and the authorities.

 

[tracydr]

I don’t mean to be inflammatory, but if a women was subject to aggressive pursuit in a sexual manner, did not object at the time, left the situation voluntarily, and then returned two more times over a series of days and receiving similar responses, how is a man to understand that his actions were unwelcome?

I can certainly agree that his actions were unprofession but I have a hard time understanding where a criminal aspect comes into play and how the advice to call the police makes sense. Do women have the right to demand that a man is a mind reader?

Women should be empowered to stand up for themselves and act as an adult, rather than a helpless, silent victim.

We expect more from even our relatively young children, when we try to develop their self confidence to a point where they have the tools to remove themselves from an uncomfortable or unwelcome situation - at least as best they can. How do you send a kid to church, school, Boy Scouts, baseball or anywhere without being reasonably sure they can stand up for themselves?

Seriously? This happens all the time,especially to people under the age of 30,less assertive people and People sexually harried by someone in a position of authority.
Over 50% of all women have been sexually harassed,assaulted or raped. Most are never reported and many don’t even complain to the predator. I’m not sure what the statistics are for men.
I was assaulted on multiple occasions from the age of 15-20. I then married an abuser. It took me 15 years to get out of the relationship or even tell someone.
I’m a retired Corps Surgeon in the Army and before that I was a nuclear missile launch officer in Minuteman III missiles. I’m pretty darn tough but it still took me into my 40s to deal with my sexual traumas.