DIVING OVER 50 YEARS OLD

[Colliam7]

DAN was extremely helpful in getting her home, arranging flights as well as a medical escort to go with her. Our home was a solid 20-hour drive away and the surgeon who put the nice rod in her leg wasn't about to clear her for that drive for at least two to three weeks. DAN paid for three seats for her so her leg could be elevated. I can't say enough good things about our experience with them.

And, that is much more consistent with my understanding of the general DAN experience, An instructor colleague at my old shop broke her leg, while on a dive trip to Egypt.several years ago, and they covered the costs of air transport home, multiple seats, etc. I hope that the OP gets some response from them, because his observations are not consistent with what a reasonable person would expect. I realize that wasn't the primary focus of the thread, but the experience seems to be influencing a decision that I do not think is particularly wise, or reasonable, but probably not altogether surprising in the face of what he described.

 

[scubadada]

How about a handwritten and signed statement to the effect of:

"I testify to the best of my knowledge that I am aware of and an capable if meeting the challenges presented by..."

This after reading a paragraph describing the nature of the location.

At least then the participants would then be thinking before they acted.

Most waivers have language similar to this "the risks of diving...", doubt this does much to help/protect either party. Most probably do not read the waiver, sign it anyway

Medical clearance to dive seems excessive, but requiring dive coverage (DAN or other), does not seem unreasonable, given the remote location, etc. I have carried DAN insurance for the last 12 years (since I was 50), for my own protection, and thankfully, have never needed it.

 

[Rooster59]

"Hi, I'd like to go diving!"
"Super, you'll need to fill out a form ."
"I'll need a pen."
"It's out on the buoy."
"Where?"
"Out there, 200 yards off the beach. In the ocean. The red one."
"OK, be right back."

 

[Duke Dive Medicine]

What type of medical clearance would you require? A simple checkoff from the diver's family practitioner probably isn't a sufficient screening tool if you're looking to uncover subclinical health issues that could present themselves when diving.

Best regards,
DDM

 

[The Chairman]

I live and dive here in the Keys. Many, many (most?) of the divers down here are over 50. Almost all of the diving deaths here in the Keys are over 50 as well. We would implode if we stopped that age group from diving. We would be hurting if we pissed them off with extra rules aimed at them.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . . Since health issues are less than 25% of the low number of fatalities in diving, . . .

It's hard to tell from DAN's statistics (about which agilis' comment made me LOL), but my impression is that the percentage of fatalities due to health issues among older divers is much greater than--maybe more than just a linear extrapolation of--the percentage of fatalities due to health issues among younger divers. I don't know whether it's fair to say something like "most fatalities among older, experienced divers are due to health issues," but that's what I'm thinking.

How about a handwritten and signed statement to the effect of:
"I testify to the best of my knowledge that I am aware of and an capable if meeting the challenges presented by..."
This after reading a paragraph describing the nature of the location.
At least then the participants would then be thinking before they acted.

Having a diver sign an acknowledgement of the risk is only useful if the diver knows or suspects he has some kind of medical condition. I may be totally wrong, but my impression is that older folks run a greater risk of undiagnosed medical conditions rearing their heads. As I understand it, an elderly person could appear and feel healthy and strong, but they still run a greater risk of something spontaneous, like a heart attack, than a young person. Am I wrong? I have no medical knowledge or information beyond the drivel I read here and the ambiguous statistics that trickle out from DAN.

Also, plenty of people who suspect they are not the picture of good health will nonetheless sign waivers and releases, etc. Having a diver sign something might help mitigate the dive op's legal risk, but as I understood the OP's question, he's not so much concerned about being sued as he just wants fewer divers to suffer medical issues in a place where only minimal medical care is available. Having a doctor sign a medical clearance might help accomplish that, but it seems many of us feel that is a bit onerous.

 

[lamarpaulski]

As an operator of a dive shop in a remote location we are a long way from decent medical facilities. As our island becomes more popular with tourists as opposed to just backpackers then the age of our customers is more varied and we are getting more people wanting to dive who are over 50. We've had a couple of minor incidents recently with people in that age bracket who have had medical issues following a dive, even though the dives were well within safe limits e.g. 45 minute dive at less than 40 feet, and the customer had self signed NO to all the medical questions required for a PADI DSD.
As a result of these cases though, and at the recommendation of the local doctors, we are going to introduce a policy for over 50s to have medical clearance, irrespective of whether they answer yes or no to the medical questions. I'm looking for any guidance from other dive operations with a similar policy as to how workable that is for them, links to pages with such a policy etc. I am going to ask all course students over 50 to have a medical at home in order to be allowed to start a course, my only doubt at the moment is whether to have the same requirement for certified divers, or just to require them to have comprehensive insurance covering diving. My preference is for all over 50s to have a medical, as in my experience insurance companies, including DAN, are useless in this area and I have not seen one yet been able to provide any assistance to someone needing medical treatment and customers have been left to make their own transport arrangements with local fishermen, in cash, and then worry about trying to reclaim money back later.
Any help gratefully received!
Adam

I agree with STOO...you're going to PO one of your key customer demographics too. The golf course analogy is quite accurate.

 

[redacted]

The problem is you have already opened Pandora's box and PO'd the GODs. So, unless you think your op can survive catering only to youger divers, you will need to do some damage control. I suggest you start by nailing down the evacuation procedures from your location and acknowledge that on your website.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I suggest you start by nailing down the evacuation procedures from your location and acknowledge that on your website.

That made me think of something. Is there such a thing as evacuation insurance that a dive operator can buy? Not the diver--we know evacuation insurance is available--but rather the operator. If there is such a thing, the dive op could just add a small fee to each diver's bill, labeling it "evacuation insurance." If there are several dive ops in the area, they could share the cost--pool the risk. This is sort of analogous to places where all the dive ops there will add a mandatory "chamber fee" to to each diver's bill to fund the maintenance of a recompression facility.

 

[undrwater]

Most waivers have language similar to this "the risks of diving...", doubt this does much to help/protect either party. Most probably do not read the waiver, sign it anyway

Medical clearance to dive seems excessive, but requiring dive coverage (DAN or other), does not seem unreasonable, given the remote location, etc. I have carried DAN insurance for the last 12 years (since I was 50), for my own protection, and thankfully, have never needed it.

Not a waiver, but a handwritten statement by ALL who wish to participate. They're writing it, they have to think about it. It's not intended as legal protection, but more as informed participation.

It's a remote location, there are not many emergency services available. Everyone should be informed.