DIVING OVER 50 YEARS OLD

[Colliam7]

We've had a couple of minor incidents recently with people in that age bracket who have had medical issues following a dive, even though the dives were well within safe limits e.g. 45 minute dive at less than 40 feet, and the customer had self signed NO to all the medical questions required for a PADI DSD.

As a result of these cases though, and at the recommendation of the local doctors, we are going to introduce a policy for over 50s to have medical clearance, irrespective of whether they answer yes or no to the medical questions. I'm looking for any guidance from other dive operations with a similar policy as to how workable that is for them, links to pages with such a policy etc. I am going to ask all course students over 50 to have a medical at home in order to be allowed to start a course, my only doubt at the moment is whether to have the same requirement for certified divers, or just to require them to have comprehensive insurance covering diving. My preference is for all over 50s to have a medical, as in my experience insurance companies, including DAN, are useless in this area and I have not seen one yet been able to provide any assistance to someone needing medical treatment and customers have been left to make their own transport arrangements with local fishermen, in cash, and then worry about trying to reclaim money back later.

Good luck. As a dive operator you have every right to impose your planned requirement. Your operation, your boat, your rules. I have no experience with implementing age-related requirements, so I cannot offer help in that regard. We have experience with requirements regarding recency of dive experience, or minimum number of prior dives, or certification level. But, that is more common.

If you do impose this requirement in conjunction with PADI courses, however, PADI may not support you, if someone contacts them, because that would potentially be a violation of their standards. But that is between you and PADI.

Two bigger issues to think about, to head off possible 'awkward' moments:

1. Do you (or your 'local doctors') have a valid, objective basis for such an action? You appear to have a limited body of anecdotal evidence, at best. What is the data-driven basis for your specific 50 y.o. cut-off? Why not 40? The DAN fatality data for 2010-present do indicate a spike in fatalities in the 50-59 age group. Is that the basis for the threshold? I am not sure that such a spike is at variance with overall population data. And, the rise actually begins in the 40-49 group. But, the bigger issue is whether requiring a medical would change anything, as you note that the customers reported no issues. I may be mistaken, but it would seem to me that this is the kind of action that is often labelled 'arbitrary and capricious'. It doesn't affect me, but it is a possible consequence to think about. Notably, the DAN data over the past 5 years also indicate that fatalities are greatest in individuals who have been diving 10 or more years, which would seem to weaken the case for requiring it of students. Just a thought.

2. Are you saying that current DAN members, carrying DAN insurance actively in force, have been 'left to make their own transport arrangements' after diving incidents? If so, that would certainly be an issue with which DAN should be confronted. At the very least, DAN should be required to post a notification to their members / insured, that 'no support or assistance from DAN can be expected in the event of a diving incident on XXX' (your remote island).

 

[uncfnp]

A better approach would be to make the customer aware of the site limitations and any special precautions they may need to make prior to the trip, such as insurance. I can tell you that a vague medical clearence will get you nothing. Just read some of the many thread on the Padi Medical Questionaire. They are only as good as the info provided, the tests required and the provider doing the exam.

 

[clarkey]

Yes of course I would let people know at the time of enquiry/booking!! From basic online research it seems that dive centres in some other locations also have similar policies, Maldives, Gozo and Malta are ones I saw mentioned online. As mentioned, I am not looking to turn people away from coming here, I just want to make sure those that come do so safely. Trying to find the right balance in doing that, but it seems some people would take offence to any kind of policy that mentions age as a factor.

 

[iamrushman]

untoward results happen regardless of age and / or experience...let us know how your new protocols and requirements work?

 

[clarkey]

Good luck. As a dive operator you have every right to impose your planned requirement. Your operation, your boat, your rules. If you do so in conjunction with PADI courses, however, PADI may not support you, if someone contacts them, because that would potentially be a violation of their standards. But that is between you and PADI.

Two bigger issues:

1. I doubt very much that you (or your 'local doctors') have any valid, objective basis for such an action. You appear to have a limited body of anecdotal evidence, at best. What is the data-driven basis for your specific 50 y.o. cut-off? Why not 45? Why not 55? I am not aware that DAN accident data support your plan, and they probably have the most comprehensive multi-year database available. I may be mistaken, but it would seem to me that this is the kind of action that is often labelled 'arbitrary and capricious'.

2. Are you saying that current DAN members, carrying DAN insurance actively in force, have been 'left to make their own transport arrangements' after diving incidents? If so, that would certainly be an issue with which DAN should be confronted. At the very least DAN should be required to post a notification to their members / insured, that 'no support or assistance from DAN can be expected in the event of a diving incident on XXX' (your remote island).

Unfortunately yes I have seen divers with DAN insurance (and other providers) who have received no help from them whatsoever in terms of logistics and arrangements (I don't know what success they have had later with reclaiming costs based on cash payments with no receipts).
I have emailed DAN this morning to ask them specifically what coverage they have in place for this region. On the basis of that reply I can then consider recommending their policies.

 

[Colliam7]

Unfortunately yes I have seen divers with DAN insurance ... who have received no help from them whatsoever in terms of logistics and arrangements (I don't know what success they have had later with reclaiming costs based on cash payments with no receipts). I have emailed DAN this morning to ask them specifically what coverage they have in place for this region. On the basis of that reply I can then consider recommending their policies.

Thanks for the response. Very good idea, to contact them. That is very disheartening to hear (as an insured DAN member), and I would certainly be more than a little 'agitated' if DAN left me to fend for myself.

Are you not disclosing your region for any particular reason?

 

[Stoo]

Interesting.... We have been looking at Little Corn as a next destination~

If I promise not to die on you, can I come visit? ;-)

 

[clarkey]

Thanks for the response. Very good idea, to contact them. That is very disheartening to hear (as an insured DAN member), and I would certainly be more than a little 'agitated' if DAN left me to fend for myself.

Are you not disclosing your region for any particular reason?

We are on Little Corn Island, Nicaragua as mentioned above. And yes its very disappointing to see insurance companies doing very little to help and leaving it to the sick patients (which of course means we have to then step in) to make all arrangements, which is another reason why I want to look at options to protect ourselves as well as customers.

 

[Stoo]

That is very disheartening to hear (as an insured DAN member), and I would certainly be more than a little 'agitated' if DAN left me to fend for myself.

I have heard stories about this sort of thing before and it is concerning. Wasted premium is one thing, but a wasted premium and no help is much worse.

Having said that, we were diving in the Gulf of St Lawrence near Percé this summer. My Missus had her leg broken in 4 places when our boat operator managed to crash the boat into a wave sending passengers airborne. One of them landed on my wife's leg.

DAN was extremely helpful in getting her home, arranging flights as well as a medical escort to go with her. Our home was a solid 20-hour drive away and the surgeon who put the nice rod in her leg wasn't about to clear her for that drive for at least two to three weeks. DAN paid for three seats for her so her leg could be elevated. I can't say enough good things about our experience with them.

 

[clarkey]

untoward results happen regardless of age and / or experience...let us know how your new protocols and requirements work?

Agreed, and no policy can be expected to cover all situations. Just looking for a guideline policy that will both act to inform people of the issues of coming to a remote location, as well as of course ensuring that medical issues are disclosed and assessed