As an update on the DAN issue, I have exchanged a couple of emails with them which clearly demonstrate they haven't got a clue what they are talking about in this area. They made vague references of divers seeking a medical assessment and DAN organizing a boat charter. When I asked them who they thought was capable of making a medical assessment and where they are located (there is no one around here who can do that), they went quiet. I also asked who they planned to charter a boat from (there is no boat charter operation here) they also have not given me any answer.... This reinforces my previous experience that DAN effectively offers no coverage for this area, and hence my original questions about what is an appropriate measure for us to take to protect the customers who are most likely to suffer from dive complications. I'm not comfortable with the view that someone dying on us is their problem and not ours, quite apart from the impact of the victim and their families it would also be traumatic for anyone here involved. I have seen someone die as a result of a dive related accident (not one of our customers) and its not an experience I wish to repeat.
DIVING OVER 50 YEARS OLD
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LITTLE CORN ISLAND
Little Corn island is approximately 70km off the coast of mainland Nicaragua, and at just 3 square km is around half the size of its neighbour, Big Corn Island, 7km away.
Also known as Islita, Little Corn is home to a population of around 700 speaking mainly Creole English as well as an increasing number of Spanish speakers who have come over from the mainland.
The main industry on the island in lobster fishing although tourism is playing an increasing role in the economy.
WHAT TO BRING
There is no ATM or any banking facilities on the island so most of your purchases will need to be in cash. Try to avoid large bills however as getting change is always a problem. Payments can usually be made in either US$ or cordoba. Credit cards and travellers cheques are only accepted in a few places on the island, including Dolphin Dive and Los Delfines hotel (credit card payments are usually subject to a charge of around 5%).
There is only one paved path on the island so for exploring the island you will walk along unlit tracks through the woods so a flashlight is a must. Light clothes will suffice as will flip flops or sandals. Note though that there are some mosquitos on the island so longer clothes and repellent are a sensible precaution.
Little Corn Childrens Reading Room - The local school here has recently set up a reading room for the children on the island of all school ages. If you have any unwanted childrens reading or colouring books please feel free to bring them and we can donate them to the school.
EATING & DRINKING
There are lots of restaurants on the island, ranging from small shacks by the path to more established restaurants. Nearly all restaurants sell excellent fresh fish and lobster. There are also some small stores on the island but supplies are limited and the supply boat only visits once a week so please bring any special needs items with you.
Tap water is drinkable on Little Corn as it comes from natural wells on the island. We therefore would encourage you to re-fill water bottles whenever possible as plastic waste can be a real problem.
SECURITY
Little Corn now has a police presence so security is much improved from some of the stories going round a few years ago. We are still though in a poor country so usual travel precautions should be taken.
MEDICAL CARE & DIVING ISSUES
Little Corn has a small medical clinic which is generally open mornings only, not at weekends, but they are able to see emergency cases outside these hours. Facilities are limited to a couple of beds, and depending on the staffing which varies from time to time, a doctor and/or a nurse. The hospital on Big Corn, whilst larger also has limited facilities.
The nearest hospital with x-ray and other major facilities is in Bluefields. The nearest recompression chamber is in Puerto Cabezas. In case of diving or other medical emergency then evacuation to these locations can be time consuming and/or costly. We therefore recommend that you have a suitable insurance policy to cover you in the even that this was to happen. Divers Alert Network (DAN) provide insurance specifically aimed at divers and dive medical treatment, as well as having a 24 hour hotline for al diving medical emergence issues.
I am sure you recognize the above. It seems to me you May be deceiving your customers into thinking they have more medical support available that you are describing in this thread. If the resources are not available you may have a problem. DAN can't pay for resources that do not exist.
Little Corn island is approximately 70km off the coast of mainland Nicaragua, and at just 3 square km is around half the size of its neighbour, Big Corn Island, 7km away.
Also known as Islita, Little Corn is home to a population of around 700 speaking mainly Creole English as well as an increasing number of Spanish speakers who have come over from the mainland.
The main industry on the island in lobster fishing although tourism is playing an increasing role in the economy.
WHAT TO BRING
There is no ATM or any banking facilities on the island so most of your purchases will need to be in cash. Try to avoid large bills however as getting change is always a problem. Payments can usually be made in either US$ or cordoba. Credit cards and travellers cheques are only accepted in a few places on the island, including Dolphin Dive and Los Delfines hotel (credit card payments are usually subject to a charge of around 5%).
There is only one paved path on the island so for exploring the island you will walk along unlit tracks through the woods so a flashlight is a must. Light clothes will suffice as will flip flops or sandals. Note though that there are some mosquitos on the island so longer clothes and repellent are a sensible precaution.
Little Corn Childrens Reading Room - The local school here has recently set up a reading room for the children on the island of all school ages. If you have any unwanted childrens reading or colouring books please feel free to bring them and we can donate them to the school.
EATING & DRINKING
There are lots of restaurants on the island, ranging from small shacks by the path to more established restaurants. Nearly all restaurants sell excellent fresh fish and lobster. There are also some small stores on the island but supplies are limited and the supply boat only visits once a week so please bring any special needs items with you.
Tap water is drinkable on Little Corn as it comes from natural wells on the island. We therefore would encourage you to re-fill water bottles whenever possible as plastic waste can be a real problem.
SECURITY
Little Corn now has a police presence so security is much improved from some of the stories going round a few years ago. We are still though in a poor country so usual travel precautions should be taken.
MEDICAL CARE & DIVING ISSUES
Little Corn has a small medical clinic which is generally open mornings only, not at weekends, but they are able to see emergency cases outside these hours. Facilities are limited to a couple of beds, and depending on the staffing which varies from time to time, a doctor and/or a nurse. The hospital on Big Corn, whilst larger also has limited facilities.
The nearest hospital with x-ray and other major facilities is in Bluefields. The nearest recompression chamber is in Puerto Cabezas. In case of diving or other medical emergency then evacuation to these locations can be time consuming and/or costly. We therefore recommend that you have a suitable insurance policy to cover you in the even that this was to happen. Divers Alert Network (DAN) provide insurance specifically aimed at divers and dive medical treatment, as well as having a 24 hour hotline for al diving medical emergence issues.
I am sure you recognize the above. It seems to me you May be deceiving your customers into thinking they have more medical support available that you are describing in this thread. If the resources are not available you may have a problem. DAN can't pay for resources that do not exist.
I've thought of coming to Little Corn for the past fifteen years. As those years have passed, I've become a bit more concerned about my personal comfort whilst OUT of the water. I hear of lots of bugs/skeeters on LC and that the trip from Big Corn and/or back can be uncomfortable to say the least. On top of that, I'm not interested in 40' dives that only last for 45 minutes(60 minutes sure!). Now I'll add to my considerations that my age may preclude me anyway and there's no way I'm going to get a doctor's certificate to dive there.
I've been on 4 Maldives liveaboard trips within the past year and never had to provide a medical clearance certificate. Sign a lengthy medical waiver - yes. Verify I had dive and medical insurance - yes.
I'm not the picture of health and fitness for my age but I can guarantee you, I've surprised many and outdived even more. I can get you written certifications to that.
Thanks for helping me cut down my list of places to get to before I hang up my fins.
All that said, I'd like to see a proper response from DAN in this regard. I do spend most of my diving days out in the boonies somewhere.
I've been on 4 Maldives liveaboard trips within the past year and never had to provide a medical clearance certificate. Sign a lengthy medical waiver - yes. Verify I had dive and medical insurance - yes.
I'm not the picture of health and fitness for my age but I can guarantee you, I've surprised many and outdived even more. I can get you written certifications to that.
Thanks for helping me cut down my list of places to get to before I hang up my fins.
All that said, I'd like to see a proper response from DAN in this regard. I do spend most of my diving days out in the boonies somewhere.
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Bluefields, mentioned above, is one of the world's wonders, the major sea turtle nesting beach in this Hemisphere. I've been to Bluefields, but never to either Corn Island, though they sound wonderful, like Negril was in the late 1960s, before telephone service, when required flight confirmation communication with the airport was via shortwave radio, when there was only one small hotel, when the last few miles to get there were by boat and coral gardens grew right up to the shoreline. Such places are almost gone. I'm glad to know some still exist, even though I may never see them again.
tech_diver
Contributor
I'm new to the over 50 club so this thread got my attention....
I was kind of thinking what DDM said. The last time I took a general physical, it only took fifteen minutes and most of the conditions they checked for had no potential for acute impact on diving (blood test for liver function, colorectal thing, etc.). In fact, it was so basic, I probably would have to had been actively dying right there for the exam to find anything out of order. I could honestly answer 'No' on every question on an agency medical release form.
Many years ago, as a prep for a big dive, I did have a much more in depth diving physical that went beyond the sign-off of a sport diving clearance. There were respiratory test and cardiac tests. It was a pretty big deal and might have revealed any latent problems. I don't know if people would take kindly to that expectation for a vacation trip.
There are places we go where there is no help. If I'm 200 feet underwater with a 40-45 minute deco obligation, I understand there's no help for me if I experience any acute life-threatening medical condition.
I was kind of thinking what DDM said. The last time I took a general physical, it only took fifteen minutes and most of the conditions they checked for had no potential for acute impact on diving (blood test for liver function, colorectal thing, etc.). In fact, it was so basic, I probably would have to had been actively dying right there for the exam to find anything out of order. I could honestly answer 'No' on every question on an agency medical release form.
Many years ago, as a prep for a big dive, I did have a much more in depth diving physical that went beyond the sign-off of a sport diving clearance. There were respiratory test and cardiac tests. It was a pretty big deal and might have revealed any latent problems. I don't know if people would take kindly to that expectation for a vacation trip.
There are places we go where there is no help. If I'm 200 feet underwater with a 40-45 minute deco obligation, I understand there's no help for me if I experience any acute life-threatening medical condition.
If you are truly concerned about diver safety then you need to be proactive on your end. And by this I don't mean randomly excluding a particular age bracket. I mean have an emergency plan in place. How and when will a diver be evacuated. Have everyone certified (to the extend the location allows) and/or trained in first aid/CPR. Have an AED available, O2, etc and keep first aid supplies current and routinely inspected. I am sure others that deal with this can give better examples.
And by the way, if you want to limit dive accidents why not restrict new divers?
A dive op can adjust dives to suit divers' abilities, ensure they are accompanied by a DM, etc.--these things can help prevent a diver from needing evacuation to a chamber. In contrast, a dive op has no way to predict when someone's medical condition might give them trouble. Let's assume the dive op is already taking as many dive-related and first aid-related precautions to protect divers as the dive op thinks reasonable (that is, without impacting revenue TOO much). So, now the dive op is looking for additional ways to reduce the likelihood of divers needing evacuation and is trying to evaluate what might be reasonable. Makes sense to me.
But is this what they are doing?
Or rather then taking active precautions on their end to limit risk, they just elect to target a certain age group with a requirement that in reality has limited validity. Can you say ageism?
Neither of us know whether it's "rather." I don't recall the OP saying what precautions they are currently taking.
Are insurance companies guilty of "ageism" when they charge a higher premium to older people? It's based on statistical risk. If in fact the OP's premise that older divers are statistically more at risk of suffering severe medical problems while diving is incorrect, then that's a different story.
Do health insurance companies charge higher premiums based age? I was not aware of this.
Edit: Yep, they can do it even under Obamacare. Apparently its based on utilization of healthcare not necessarily risk. Older persons use more healthcare dollars. So does the older diver cost the dive op more?
I applaud the OP for wanting to make his dive op safer. I just question that this is the best way to go about it.
Scenario..
54 year old diver plans trip. Gets the required general physical form and heads to his PCP. Provider does a basic health exam, signs off on the form (assuming he is willing to accept the liability), hands the bill and the form to the patient.
The patient makes his planned trip, goes diving, suffers a heart attack and dies. Keep in mind too that the odds of surviving a heart attack while diving are pretty low wherever you dive. And with the older population and health risk diving, statistically I think myocardial infarction is the greatest concern.
How did the physical benefit the diver? After all, isn't that what the OP is after?
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