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DAN and AIG travel insurance absurd response ; Sinking boat not covered!

Discussion in 'Dive Insurance' started by HBO MD, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. outofofficebrb

    outofofficebrb HARRO HUNNAYYY

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: San Francisco, California
    Not all hotel bookings are refundable with more than X days before check-in. Some offer pre-payment-in-full discounts - like pay for it now with a no-refund option and save 30%, etc., as an example. I'm not sure if that is the case or not for the OP as they have not confirmed this.
    KathyV and caydiver like this.
  2. divinh

    divinh Photographer

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: San Francisco
    Cancelling is one thing, but what if you have to extend your stay because your travel companion got ill during the trip and needs to stay put to recuperate? Accommodations need to be extended, day-to-day costs extended and travel arrangements rearranged...
    flyboy08, outofofficebrb and KathyV like this.
  3. KathyV

    KathyV Orca

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Midwestern US
    That’s very true! Friends of ours were vacationing in Hawaii and were in a very serious car accident. The wife and one of the daughters were severely injured and both needed surgeries and lots of care. They were air-lifted from Maui to Oahu and they and they needed extended stays in Hawaii.

    The 2 patients had to have special arrangements made to lie prone during their flights home. Each of them needed a row of seats on the plane. their health insurance worked because they were in the US but they had major expenses outside of what was covered by their health insurance.
    outofofficebrb likes this.
  4. outofofficebrb

    outofofficebrb HARRO HUNNAYYY

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: San Francisco, California
    Update from Dive Assure:

    They confirmed a sinking/wrecking would be the responsibility of the liveaboard - they will (should) have appropriate insurance coverage to cover them for such an event, including their need to compensate their customers. Another reason to go with reputable operators, and probably wise to ask if they have insurance. You can never assume in some countries... I then asked about the airfare, hotels, and other incidentals, etc., that were booked for before/after the liveaboard that cannot be canceled/refunded. He confirmed that if the liveaboard will not/did not provide compensation for this, trip cancellations and interruptions would be covered, based on the regular terms of the policy, with a 20% co-insurance as this is still a trip interruption/cancellation.

    This is also a very, very good reason to book your travel on your credit card and why I often book through an agency for liveaboards and resorts that only accept wire transfers and sometimes PayPal. Not only do I get points for my credit card for travel bonuses, I have the protection of chargeback if the liveaboard operator tries to duck the compensation for the liveaboard itself if something went terribly wrong. I also always book hotels and airfare with my credit card so that I can possibly claim trip cancel/interruption through them as an alternative.

    As for the OP, I would try to get compensation from the liveaboard company for as much as you can first. Since DAN Travel Insurance is failing you on the trip interruption/cancellation part for a sinking, I would try to seek trip interruption/cancellation from the credit card company you used to pay for the hotels/airfare...and possibly look into getting Dive Assure next time instead. I have always thought that they are much more encompassing, especially for divers.

    Below is relevant if the liveaboard fights you or drags their feet on paying you back on what you spent for a non-delivered service like if the liveaboard sunk before or while you were on it....Please note the underlined portion on the dating as that is what will likely apply for liveaboards based on how early we book, etc.

    I have all Visa cards, and this was taken from Visa for ALL countries except Europe. If you want to view Europe specific conditions, please click here to read more: Access Denied

    Section 13.1 Merchandise/Services Not Received - Dispute Time Limit

    For ALL countries except Europe:

    If applicable, before initiating a dispute, an issuer must wait

    • 15 calendar days from either the transaction date, if the date the services were expected or the delivery date for the merchandise is not specified
    • The date the cardholder returned or attempted to return the merchandise, if the merchandise was returned due to late delivery.
    A dispute must be processed no later than either
    • 120 calendar days from the transaction processing date
    • 120 calendar days from the last date that the cardholder expected to receive the merchandise or services The maximum allowed time is not to exceed 540 calendar days from the transaction processing date.

    For ALL countries except Europe, the dispute documentation includes:

    Certification of any of the following, as applicable:
    • Services were not rendered by the expected date/time
    • Merchandise was not received by the expected date/time
    • merchandise was not received at the agreed location (issuer must specify the address of the agreed location
    • cardholder attempted to resolve with merchant
    • the date the merchandise was returned
    A detailed description of the merchandise or services purchased, unless prohibited by applicable laws or regulations. The description must contain additional information beyond the data required in the Clearing Record.

    A cardholder letter, if both:
    • the cardholder has disputed 3 or more transaction for non-receipt of merchandise or services at the same merchant
    • the disputed transactions all occurred within the same 30 day calendar day period
    Eric Combees, KathyV and wnissen like this.
  5. HBO MD

    HBO MD Scuba Media & Publications

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Boston, USA
    My point was for people to re examine what we often take as self evident ; the sinking for example.
    As a physician, a single day in the ICU can cost upwards of $10,000, so insurance seems a small amount to pay in comparison. Hopefully we never have to use it in that way.

    Nevertheless, it's been a lousy situation since as divers seeking coverage for diving holidays, these adventures incur unique circumstances and requirements which you would think that DAN and AIG would clearly be aware of and cater to.
    flyboy08 and KathyV like this.
  6. Lorenzoid

    Lorenzoid idling in neutral buoyancy

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Atlanta, USA
    This brings up the point that DAN and others sell generic travel insurance policies underwritten by companies that have no special expertise in diving. The ACCIDENT insurance DAN sells, which very well could cover that stay in the ICU if the result of a dive (or other) accident, is apparently very good, but the travel insurance is another matter. Generic travel insurance really does NOT seem to cater to the needs of divers to insure against the things divers want most to protect against, like the expense of catching up with a liveboard that departed without you due to an airline screw-up. The closest thing I have seen to insurance that takes into account the needs of divers is the Liveaboard Rider that DiveAssure sells. I believe similar insurance has been marketed to cruise trippers.
    outofofficebrb and KathyV like this.
  7. outofofficebrb

    outofofficebrb HARRO HUNNAYYY

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: San Francisco, California
    In addition to what @Lorenzoid mentioned for the rider....

    It has been a while since I have dipped back into the DAN Travel Insurance fine print but Dive Assure also has missed diving days baggage delay which covers dive gear rentals if your equipment does not get there in time for you to start diving. In addition, they will cover dive equipment though it is not replacement cost; you would be hard pressed for that without depreciated value or some % of the original cost. They also include medical inability to dive or missed dives/dive days due to weather which can strike on a liveaboard or land based. https://mk0diveassurecoatkqm.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/DiveTravel-USA-JRI.pdf
    KathyV likes this.
  8. Lorenzoid

    Lorenzoid idling in neutral buoyancy

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Atlanta, USA
    OOO, is that pdf the "Liveaboard Rider" or the base insurance? Yes, I see it is not titled "Liveaboard Rider" or anything similar. It's definitely focused on diving.

    Edit: Whoops--I was too lazy to scroll down the document to where Liveaboard Rider begins.
    KathyV and outofofficebrb like this.
  9. potato cod

    potato cod ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Rust Belt
    Wow, sorry the OP is dealing with this. That's really surprising and just made me look over the trip insurance for upcoming travel (no mention of sinking, but my trip is not a liveaboard).

    I've never used my DAN medical/dive insurance, but I am the poster child for getting travel insurance. I've TWICE had trip insurance pay out for liveaboards that we ended up having to miss. Once because our local airport was shut down for over 24-hours due to fog (fog! not snow! I live in Buffalo!) and again because I broke my eye socket a week before a trip sledding with my nieces). That's somewhere in the ballpark of $16,000 for me and my spouse. We also used it another time to get my spouse some clothes and toiletries and rent gear on a dive trip when his luggage went missing for several days. And it always gives me some peace of mind, which is worth a least a little bit.
    outofofficebrb and KathyV like this.
  10. DiveTheGalapagos

    DiveTheGalapagos ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    This is why I have always advised against anything AIG. They're expensive and they find a way to deny any claim that isn't 1) Diver's illness or accident caused missing trip and doctor's letters to prove it. 2) Diver's loss of employment forcing cancellation, also requiring proof.

    I had AIG coverage for my household goods when I shipped them from Ecuador to US. Shipper caused a big problem that caused many things of great value (paintings, etc) to be damaged with mold and mildew. Claim denied.

    Had clients who once missed their Cocos liveaboard due to the airline deciding to enforce YF vaccinations without telling anyone and refusing to allow them to board in Quito. Undersea Hunter didn't know anything about the enforcement. Agency who chartered the liveaboard didn't know anything about it. Clients had booked their own flights from Quito to Costa Rica. AIG refused to cover.

    Only the Dive Assure coverage has a liveaboard rider, but I far prefer DAN dive insurance because of the way they manage accidents. DAN worries about the diver first, the cost second. As it should be.

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