DAN and AIG travel insurance absurd response ; Sinking boat not covered!

[wnissen]

True. Travel insurance isn't "good value" for most people, but the flip side is you have to look at what you are willing to absorb if something came up that was beyond your control. That risk/benefit is different for everyone. To some people like myself, I see it as capping my risk by paying hundreds of dollars for insurance I might not use ("worst case scenario financially") and in the event something happens, I'm not out of pocket on possibly thousands of dollars when I might be stranded and have to make some difficult decisions. I can afford hundreds and budget that as part of my travel budget, but I can't afford thousands on a whim. I suppose one could say I need to factor in an "emergency fund" for issues that come up while traveling.......but it was nice to get a pro-rated refund on an all-inclusive dive resort that I prepaid for plus the extra transportation, hotel costs, meals when options were limited because of a flight being canceled due to weather. It doesn't take much in some foreign countries that have more "primitive" and simple runways.

And TravelGuard / AIG is not one of the companies known for denying claims willy nilly to save a buck. I had a good experience with them paying out promptly in the case of a delay. Unfortunately their policies that I read excluded coverage for things like war, terrorism, or civil unrest. If I book a trip to Egypt, obviously I don't intend to go in the middle of a revolution or civil war, right? The fine print excludes a ton of stuff that seems like it would cost almost nothing to insure.

 

[outofofficebrb]

And TravelGuard / AIG is not one of the companies known for denying claims willy nilly to save a buck. I had a good experience with them paying out promptly in the case of a delay. Unfortunately their policies that I read excluded coverage for things like war, terrorism, or civil unrest. If I book a trip to Egypt, obviously I don't intend to go in the middle of a revolution or civil war, right? The fine print excludes a ton of stuff that seems like it would cost almost nothing to insure.

I really hate that the OP is going through all this but I think it is also prompting many of us to read the fine print on our policies closer, or again. My usual policy does not cover terrorism as well, but I believe that to be quite common with many policies. It does cover "civil unrest" and "war" with some caveats.

"8. Emergency evacuation for non-medical reasons, including war, civil unrest, natural disasters, or other causes: The insurer will pay or reimburse You for payment or cost of non-medical emergency evacuation as defined below: 8.1. Payment to offset the cost of obtaining or paying for evacuation during a period of civil unrest, insurrection, natural disasters that could not have been foreseen prior departure from home country of origin that has is posted to or declared by the United States Department of State or validated by the NOAA (National Oceanic Atmospheric Association) in the cases of weather or natural disaster. In all cases, the insurer reserves the right to assess the validity of the claim and its decisions are final. 8.2. Coverage is NOT valid in any country that was on the verge, already in or under duress for a period of 60 days prior to departure from point of origin or country of residence. See general exclusions for definition associated with travel to global hotspots. 8.3. Specific exclusions: Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Mali, North Korea, Pakistan, Somalia, Syria, Yemen and countries of the Sudan"

On the same note as civil unrest, strike/riot is also covered with some caveats:

"The insurer will reimburse You up to limit specified in the Schedule of Benefits in respect of reasonable additional accommodation (room only) and travel expenses necessarily incurred to reach the overseas destination as a consequence of; strike, riot, mechanical breakdown, missed connection or inclement weather, causing interruption of scheduled public transport services (on the outward journey only); or accidental or mechanical failure involving the car in which You are travelling (provided it has been properly serviced) causing You to arrive at the international point of departure from the point of origin to commence the booked journey"

Here are the exclusions for "War Insurrection and Terrorism":

"27. War Insurrection and Terrorism: The Insurer shall not be liable for: a. Nuclear, and Weapons of mass destruction: means the use of any explosive nuclear weapon or device or the emission, discharge, dispersal, release or escape of fissile material emitting a level of radioactivity capable of causing incapacitating disablement or death amongst people or animals. b. Chemical Weapons: mass destruction means the emission, discharge, dispersal, release or escape of any solid, liquid or gaseous chemical compound which, when suitably distributed, is capable of causing incapacitating disablement or death amongst people or animals. c. Utilization of Biological weapons of mass destruction means the emission, discharge, dispersal, release or escape of any pathogenic (disease producing) micro-organism(s) and/or biologically produced toxin(s) (including genetically modified organisms and chemically synthesized toxins) which are capable of causing incapacitating disablement or death amongst people or animals. 28. Terrorism: Terrorist activity means an act, or acts, of any person, or group(s) of persons, committed for political, religious, ideological or similar purposes with the intention to influence any government and/or to put the public, or any section of the public, in fear. Terrorist activity can include, but not be limited to, the actual use of force or violence and/or the threat of such use. Furthermore, the perpetrators of terrorist activity can either be acting alone, or on behalf of, or in connection with any organization(s) or governments(s)."

 

[flyboy08]

You may be correct - it's probably the date that the policy went into effect! I have asked for a clarification just to be sure but that does sound right.

Insurance policies are always effective at 12:01am on the day coverage is bound.

 

[flyboy08]

War and terrorism are excluded on almost every insurance policy as is nuclear explosion and pollution unless caused by a covered accident...ie, you run your car into a lake and pollute the water with gas....then your insurance company is responsible for remediation.


Yes, insurers are not in the business to pay out claims. Especially third and fourth tier companies...you want Cadillac coverage, buy Chubb , but you’ll pay for it.

 

[wnissen]

War and terrorism are excluded on almost every insurance policy as is nuclear explosion and pollution unless caused by a covered accident...ie, you run your car into a lake and pollute the water with gas....then your insurance company is responsible for remediation.


Yes, insurers are not in the business to pay out claims. Especially third and fourth tier companies...you want Cadillac coverage, buy Chubb , but you’ll pay for it.

Fundamentally, what I want is a policy that covers stuff that's not my fault. I bet a lot fewer people would buy the insurance if they understood what was excluded. We've gone on at least a couple major trips a year for a decade, and only one time really had to eat a deposit. Insurance is way overpriced, it would have cost us at least two weeklong vacations by now.

 

[KathyV]

Fundamentally, what I want is a policy that covers stuff that's not my fault. I bet a lot fewer people would buy the insurance if they understood what was excluded. We've gone on at least a couple major trips a year for a decade, and only one time really had to eat a deposit. Insurance is way overpriced, it would have cost us at least two weeklong vacations by now.

I've gone back and forth on the issue of trip insurance many times over the years. We've always gotten some DAN insurance and sometimes, if it was a really big expensive vacation, we would also buy the trip insurance. Or if there was something going on in our lives at the time - like an ailing parent- we would get trip insurance.

But it was the story of Gary McNabb, posted here on Scubaboard, that finally helped me make up my mind and regularly take the travel insurance in addition to the DAN dive insurance. I have told this store before but new members join SB all the time so I will repeat the information here - it might help someone else to decide one way or another.

A dive shop owner named Gary McNabb had retired and closed his shop and moved to Florida. While all these changes were taking place he let his DAN insurance lapse and forgot to renew it before making a dive trip with his wife to Ambergris Caye, Belize. On one of the dives he surfaced too close to the boat and suffered a serious head injury. He was transferred to a hospital in Belize City for surgery and critical care and later transported by air to Texas where he died in a hospital.

He was a veteran and he had good insurance coverage in the US but his expenses outside the US were very large, and apparently not covered by the dive op or the resort, and so his friends set up the GoFundMe page at the link below to try to help his family.

I didn't know Gary McNabb but I am guessing that he wouldn't have wanted to leave behind a terrible financial burden for his family. He paid for insurance for years and probably didn't use it much, but the one time he really needed it, he didn't have it. So now I try to make sure that we always have it - but I hope that we will never need it!

Click here to support Gary McNabb Family Support Fund organized by Barbara Brower

 

[Lorenzoid]

DAN or equivalent insurance for accidents—always. Medical costs can be tens of thousands of dollars. But travel insurance for things like cancellation/interruption?—maybe only for a very expensive or remote liveaboard or resort.

 

[KathyV]

I wanted to share a ridiculous scenario with you. The Majestic Explorer was due to host me on a Galapagos trip and as everyone knows, it sank.
Of course, having purchased top of the line DAN travel insurance one would take for granted that one is covered. I mean, DAN specializes in dive coverage and hence of course ensures it's partner AIG would have a complete and transparent understanding of the situation.
This was not the case.
"Claim denied". Sinking is not covered!
I guess I had to go down with the ship to have obtained some compensation.
They claim that one has to purchase an additional coverage which adds about another 50% to the fee.

I have no idea how to proceed or petition these guys, but I wanted the community to know that you must scrupulously review the conditions of the policy or you'll be out of a substantial amount of money.

Any suggestions of how to address this absurd situation are most welcome.

FYI, here is information about the sinking of the Majestic Explorer LOB:
https://www.chronicleonline.com/news/local/eight-boats-hours-citrus-hills-woman-recounts-shipwreck-off-the/article_035381ba-888b-11e9-887c-7b023f71ec92.html

 

[Edward3c]

I've gone back and forth on the issue of trip insurance many times over the years. We've always gotten some DAN insurance and sometimes, if it was a really big expensive vacation, we would also buy the trip insurance. Or if there was something going on in our lives at the time - like an ailing parent- we would get trip insurance.

But it was the story of Gary McNabb, posted here on Scubaboard, that finally helped me make up my mind and regularly take the travel insurance in addition to the DAN dive insurance. I have told this store before but new members join SB all the time so I will repeat the information here - it might help someone else to decide one way or another.

A dive shop owner named Gary McNabb had retired and closed his shop and moved to Florida. While all these changes were taking place he let his DAN insurance lapse and forgot to renew it before making a dive trip with his wife to Ambergris Caye, Belize. On one of the dives he surfaced too close to the boat and suffered a serious head injury. He was transferred to a hospital in Belize City for surgery and critical care and later transported by air to Texas where he died in a hospital.

He was a veteran and he had good insurance coverage in the US but his expenses outside the US were very large, and apparently not covered by the dive op or the resort, and so his friends set up the GoFundMe page at the link below to try to help his family.

I didn't know Gary McNabb but I am guessing that he wouldn't have wanted to leave behind a terrible financial burden for his family. He paid for insurance for years and probably didn't use it much, but the one time he really needed it, he didn't have it. So now I try to make sure that we always have it - but I hope that we will never need it!

Click here to support Gary McNabb Family Support Fund organized by Barbara Brower

I don’t take out travel and dive insurance to recover losses from accommodation, travel or diving none supply, but to get me (or my body) home if there were an incident. If the cover I’m after includes the other aspects, that’s a bonus.

 

[caydiver]

I still don’t understand why the hotels cannot be cancelled. And while not ideal the non-refundable flights used at a different time. While it might not be the first choice, but at least it is something.