Young divers VS Old divers

[shoredivr]

I think DiveZero is trying to raise traffic for his linked website. That is all his post is about.


Good marketing ploy....given his website and that he says he's been diving for 4 years, I'd guess he falls into his "younger diver" category....

 

[divezero]

Okay, from most posts, I think I may have worded this wrong.

What I mean by "young" and "old" really applies to the business and dive company side of things. There have been quite a few of us (publications and dive retailers), discussing how we all agree that there are still many dive companies and dive shops out there who want nothing to do with the internet at all, and then there are the older companies who feel threatened by the rise of new companies that they kind of burrow themselves in the corner until they go out of business.

My concern is, when will the turning point actually occur, and the future of dive shops and dive companies favor the dive industry?

To answer a couple posts, it doesn't matter if you are a diver in your 60's or a diver in your 20's, scuba diving is all about having a wide age group, and it always will.

The Young vs old was regarding to "some" not all, dive companies out there who will choose not to adapt to the internet and thus resulting in fading away.

 

[Thalassamania]

Okay, from most posts, I think I may have worded this wrong.

What I mean by "young" and "old" really applies to the business and dive company side of things. There have been quite a few of us (publications and dive retailers), discussing how we all agree that there are still many dive companies and dive shops out there who want nothing to do with the internet at all, and then there are the older companies who feel threatened by the rise of new companies that they kind of burrow themselves in the corner until they go out of business.

My concern is, when will the turning point actually occur, and the future of dive shops and dive companies favor the dive industry?

To answer a couple posts, it doesn't matter if you are a diver in your 60's or a diver in your 20's, scuba diving is all about having a wide age group, and it always will.

The Young vs old was regarding to "some" not all, dive companies out there who will choose not to adapt to the internet and thus resulting in fading away.

Good new companies do well and change diving for the better based on their performance. Examples of this are the Farrallon/Tekna companies (that ultimately went under) and Oceanic (that grew from an LDS and housing company to a major manufacturer. The last major change that a new company made to diving that comes to mind was Michael Menduno with aquaCorps magazine ... and that's about 15 years ago. The problem (as I see it) with what you are doing is that you're not doing anything new, all your stuff appears to be about advertising and product placement ... no different than the old Skin Diver Magazine except you're saving the printing costs by putting it on line rather than on paper, and even that is hardly "new."

One of the problems with being "old" is that you're seen it all ... well most of it ... before.

 

[J.R.]

Old vs. Young??? What the HECK are you talking about???

Foundation:... I'm 56 and closing in on 57... Just got my DM last year and can swim a mile in 45 minutes (... and two in an hour and a half)... not SCREAMING FAST... but not bad for an old guy. Origninally certified in 1970... Ok... that said:

Maybe ya' should talk to the 9 year old I was working with during the SEAL Team pool session last Thursday who walked into the shop the next day... came up to me and announced to the shop I was *her* dive buddy... (... a "kodak moment" in my DM life...)...

... or the young lady (early teens) I call "Flipper"... we're dive buddies too.. as is her dad... he's in his early 30's.

... or maybe...

Heck... the list is long. I have yet to run into any attitude from anybody... with the exception of the occasional randy little buck who's trying to impress the girls by challenging any other male (regardless of age) around them... [Note to any to whom this may apply: doesn't work... the girls giggle after you quit thumping your chest)...

"New equipment"... man... this cracks me up... You seem to be under the impression that "new" began yesterday... Dude... I've seen all kinds of "new" equipment... some comes... some goes... some get's repackaged as "new... AND IMPROVED"... *New* has always happened... *new* always will... and I spent my life working with computers (big ones and little ones)... so if you're gonna' show me something about how to use them... you'd better be a LOT better at it than me... (... and I also have the advantage of being willing to actually read the manual... as soon as I locate my readin' glasses)... I LOVE new equipment... got a whole closet full of it... or it was at one time... but I will admit to not having a need to open up a new closet simply because somebody put a nifty stripe on their wetsuit... or came up with a "new" color... or changed the shape of their exhaust tee's... doesn't mean I don't admire the effort... just not enough to chase every little tweek... My interest in "old gear" is nostalgic... it's interesting... I play with it... wouldn't dive with it on a regular basis...

... let's see... sport v. hobby... whatever works. If you want "competition" I'm not your guy... if I'm going to compete for something it needs to have real value... bragging rights don't so, ok, you win...

I don't dive for competition... not particularly interested in how deep ya' dive... or what your sac rate is... how many wrecks you've done or sharks you've hand fed... they're interesting stories but it's just entertainment... I tend to like a nice social dive where we can sit around and admire each other's pictures at the end of the day over a cold beer and MAYBE a good cuban... (cigar or sandwich... not picky)...

Personally I'm all about young divers... when the tanks get heavy I can rest... them with the energy can carry-on... (so to speak)...

and... NO... I do NOT wish I was 25 again... I've been there... I have a strong sense of the challenges and issues you may have to deal with in the upcoming years... I have no desire to go through that again... (want another beer???)

Young v. Old??? Not in my universe...

 

[J.R.]

The problem (as I see it) with what you are doing is that you're not doing anything new, all your stuff appears to be about advertising and product placement ... no different than the old Skin Diver Magazine except you're saving the printing costs by putting it on line rather than on paper, and even that is hardly "new."

Yea... repackaging the same stuff is just the same stuff repackaged... but then... *maybe* ya' gotta' be old enough to have seen the stuff before it was repackaged to REALIZED that it's the same stuff...

 

[captain]

One of the problems with being "old" is that you're seen it all ... well most of it ... before.

I don't think that is necessarily a problem but it can be aggravating at times. Sort of like when we got a new engineer at work and had to prove to them that their "new" idea had been tried before and didn't work.

 

[Nemrod]

I think it was Al Gore who invented the internet...........along with Global Warming.

Al Gore is old. The earth is cooling, the climate is changing for the last 4.5 billion years. If I recall something like 99% of all life that has ever been is extinct, we naked chimps cannot be responsible for it all.

The earth is warmer than in the last pre-Holocene ice age, cooler than during the Cretaceous. Oh well, things come and go and nothing ever stays the same for long.

N

 

[DA Aquamaster]

What I mean by "young" and "old" really applies to the business and dive company side of things. There have been quite a few of us (publications and dive retailers), discussing how we all agree that there are still many dive companies and dive shops out there who want nothing to do with the internet at all, and then there are the older companies who feel threatened by the rise of new companies that they kind of burrow themselves in the corner until they go out of business.

My concern is, when will the turning point actually occur, and the future of dive shops and dive companies favor the dive industry?
.../snip

...The Young vs old was regarding to "some" not all, dive companies out there who will choose not to adapt to the internet and thus resulting in fading away.

I am a little confused. Several companies actively discourage internet sales, phone sales or in effect anything other than over the counter sales. However, products from these same companies are commonly found on internet retail sites.

Given that the majority of the expensive items are serial numbered and could be tracked back to the authorized dealer who originally received them, it is very obvious that these companies have policies restricting on-line sales but engage in the practice of looking the other way when internet retailers sell their stuff. I suspect that the tolerance of on-line sales has everything to do with the significant percentage of their gross whole sale transaction that are ultimately sold on-line.

So when you talk about old and new companies and various business models, what do you mean?

In a sense, the internet fills the same role as mailorder sales did in the past. Often, it is the only way for a new or smaller brand to get its foot in the door and build enough credibility to start getting into brick and mortar shops. At the same time, it has historically been the only market for lower quality companies to move low quality discount merchandise.

In either case, it is understandable why an older company may feel threatened by the potential to lose market share to upstart companies whether they sell quality product or not. That becomes another reason for older companies to engage in internet sales, but at the same time to discourage them to try to maintain the qualitative advantages for their dealer networks.

On the other side of the fence, scuba equipment is a high overhead low volume business for the LDS. Not many brick and mortar dealers could stay in business long if internet sales of the brands they carry were totally unrestricted. You would end up with a few companies who would aggressively market and package products and leave the local dive shops with an even lower volume of sales with which to pay the rent, the light bill and the payroll.

If that occurs, what you end up with are LDS's that will have to subsist on training, gas fills and perhaps service work - although that is problematic when you can no longer afford to stock and sell the inventory needed to be a dealer.

And in the extreme without local dive shops, you have no access to gas fills, and less access and quality control/supervision of what become totally independent instructors.

So tell me how it is all supposed to work.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

What did you purchase????

I purchased two different setups. Cheng wanted something small, simple and recreational ... so I bought her a Fuji F100 with the Fuji housing.

I wanted something I could take wide-angle shots with, and could take to 200 feet ... so I got a Canon G10, Fisheye FIX housing, 15 mm wide-angle port, dual ultralight strobe arms, and a Sea & Sea YS-110a strobe (I already own a YS-25 I'll use as a slave for now).

As to relationships with manufacturers, I have a relationship with several and most of them hate me because I make fun of all the crap they make like fins with rubber bands on them so they have more "torque" or snorkels with balls in them or tank clackers or plastic second stages and poodle jackets that have 5 pounds of positive buoyancy and enough padding to use as a pillow, yeah, they love me. Yeah, I love laughing at the young people with all of their fru fru equipment. The "war" is on.

N

I don't really care what other people dive ... not even people I teach scuba to. What I care about is that they understand the capabilities and limitations of their gear. Once that happens, people usually start making wiser gear choices ... but it's still their choices.

Most of the manufacturers I've gotten to know are people who's gear I will buy and use. And although I don't actively push anybody's gear, it often turns out that people I teach and dive with will buy gear from those same manufacturers ... mostly because I let 'em try my stuff at some point.

There are two things I look for in any manufacturer I'd recommend ... quality products and good customer service. The gear doesn't necessarily have to be something I'd personally use ... lots of people (most people, actually) dive a different style than me, and my gear choices might not be optimal for them. I do try to educate myself on other manufacturer's equipment ... even if I know I won't dive it ... because inevitably someone's going to ask me about it, and I'd like to be able to give an objective opinion (to the degree that that's possible, anyway).

I try not to make fun of other people's gear ... to my concern, "fun" should be reserved for what we do with it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Diver0001]

There's no war between young and old divers except in the minds of some. Diving brings people of different ages together, it doesn't push them apart.

I love this post. Short, to the point, and absolutely true!

Not only different ages, but different social classes, backgrounds, race, religion, belief, gender, education, career, personal history.....

There are people on this board who would probably try to crush my skull if we discussed politics but I know for SURE if I were under water with them I would stare down the hounds of hell to help them if they were in trouble and they would do the same for me....

Diving is the great leveler.... the thing that find the lowest common denominator in all of us. The will to live. Curiosity, wonder and the desire to make this life worth living.

R..