Young divers VS Old divers

[divezero]

I really appreciate all of your input, keep it coming!

This is a topic we need to discuss, it seems like a lot of divers are getting upset for different reasons, but I think this has to be addressed sooner or later.

Local dive shops need to exist, and we fully support LDS's on our website with a Global Dive Shop listing, for dive shops to post their shops for free.

But there are some people that own dive shops that just want to keep to themselves and provide diving services and tank fills to a couple divers per month. They refuse to get a computer and learn how to use it. When a company comes along and offers free promotion, they decline it. I have seen 2 dive shops in the past couple months go out of business because of this, and this isn't only myself who has seen this, but a few other dive publications who have also been concentrating on this topic.

I personally think this is a result of the "old" age meeting with the new "young" age.

What do you think?

 

[NudeDiver]

i don't quite understand how you can say that defining a sport goes well beyond having to be in shape

...oh thats OK, I understand.

and then turn around and define sport as needing a higher degree of athleticism and involving competition, where in both of those you need to be in shape.

Are you serious? Wow. OK, well, think of being in shape as a requirement for athleticism. It's a pre-cursor. A pre-requisite. Kind of like.....you need to understand basic Algebra before you can understand the equations of Trigonometry. As for competition, there are MANY things that involve competition that do not require being in shape. Hell, some of those things are even called "sports". Bowling, Poker, darts, billiards - lots of things.

how many people with a higher degree of athleticism do you know who are not in shape?

Again, you fail to see the order of operations. A requires B, but B does not require A.

how often to people sign up to compete in something, when they are totally out of shape. nope, you confused me a bit on this one my friend.

Lots and lots of times. For example, go to a bowling tournament some time. Hell, go to a poker tournament. Hell - look at the last presidential race. Did McCain look like he was in shape to you? Well, he was competing for votes.

actually a sport is defined as: Sport: is an activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.

That's great. But it's not how I define it. The modern definition of "sport" has become so broad and inclusive that practically ANYTHING can be defined as a sport. Competitive crack smoking anyone? No - I'm afraid I reject this expansion of the term.

the problem with your argument is that we can't just make up whatever definition we want for words.

Sure we can. Especially when we add, "I consider..." or "I don't consider" in front of something.

words have official definitions, accepted worldwide and they are pretty concrete. under the official definition of the word sport, scuba diving definitely applies.

That's great. But it doesn't mean that everyone accepts those definitions. The same thing happens with certain governments. Some countries accept them as official and valid - some do not. Look at Taiwain's situation if you have any doubts.

Unfortunately, an opinion can never be wrong. I'm entitled to whatever opinion I want about what constitutes a sport - and, amazingly, my opinion is as equally correct as anyone else's. So while I may not consider SCUBA diving a sport, you are free to disagree - and we are both equally correct. Isn't life just wonderful??

 

[Thalassamania]

I really appreciate all of your input, keep it coming!

This is a topic we need to discuss, it seems like a lot of divers are getting upset for different reasons, but I think this has to be addressed sooner or later.

Not really, we could go on quite happily for years and years and years never having discussed it.

Local dive shops need to exist, and we fully support LDS's on our website with a Global Dive Shop listing, for dive shops to post their shops for free.

Says who? There is not 11th Commandment relating to the need for local dive shops. They live or die based in their ability to attract (and maintain) their clientele.

But there are some people that own dive shops that just want to keep to themselves and provide diving services and tank fills to a couple divers per month. They refuse to get a computer and learn how to use it. When a company comes along and offers free promotion, they decline it. I have seen 2 dive shops in the past couple months go out of business because of this, and this isn't only myself who has seen this, but a few other dive publications who have also been concentrating on this topic.

If they can support themselves with a couple of divers per month and are happy, more power to them. I doubt that the aforementioned shops went out of business because they declined your kind offer, more likely they had much bigger problems than that. Is the presence of a computer the first thing on anyones' list when they evaluate an LDS? Heck, I don't care if they use an abacus.

I personally think this is a result of the "old" age meeting with the new "young" age.

What do you think?

I think you're far too young and way too inexperienced to make such a sweeping generalization.

 

[NudeDiver]

So I guess there are a few others that share your opinion NudeDiver, but perhaps not the majority. Maybe someone should make a Scubaboard poll

If I cared whether or not people think diving is a sport, maybe I would

 

[J.R.]

Originally Posted by divezero
I personally think this is a result of the "old" age meeting with the new "young" age.

What do you think?

... let's see... In the words of Dennis Miller's 'Tears for Fears' theme song, "... everybody want's to rule the world..."

 

[Nemrod]

...oh thats OK, I understand.

That's great. But it's not how I define it. The modern definition of "sport" has become so broad and inclusive that practically ANYTHING can be defined as a sport. Competitive crack smoking anyone? No - I'm afraid I reject this expansion of the term.

Isn't life just wonderful??

Yes, it is wonderful but unfortunately for you, you are 1) wrong and 2) you are not an authority on word definitions 3) you need to get a dictionary and use it since you don't seem to understand the concept of a definition or a dictionary for that matter.

It does not matter what or how you define anything, your opinion does not count, that is why we have language dictionaries to provide an authority on word usage, you are not an authority.

N

 

[NudeDiver]

But now to the old vs young. I have a great idea. Maybe we should make all divers past a certain age go before whatever agency certified them and do "checkout dives" to show they are still capable of diving without killing themselves or others. Kind of like what some places do with older drivers before they get their license renewed. And they would have to do the checkout dive under the guidance of a younger more skilled diver. If we're lucky, our government will set up an agency to oversee this activity.

This is a fantastic idea. I think that anyone older than 40 should be required to undergo this kind of testing and re-certification, every year. The fee would be modest - no more than $500/year. You're right man, that would be a great way to weed out the dead wood from the diving community.

When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less. -- Lewis Carroll

Reminds me of what my old friend, President Andrew Jackson, once said: "It's a damn poor mind that can't think of more than one way to spell a word."

I understand what you are saying, but you should consider that in much of the English speaking world what you call "recreational diving" is commonly referred to as "sports diving."

That's fine. The system of government of the U.S. is commonly referred to as a "democracy" too - but that doesn't make it one.

Well a better definition of a sport like diving is an extreme sport because it involves risks. Example Motocross thats considered a sport you don't run in fact you could consider it a lazy sport because they are not doing anything else besides sitting on a motorized bike (it involves risks though) thats what scuba diving is.

All "sports" involve risk. I once got a nasty paper cut playing poker - but that doesn't mean it's a sport. I once broke my leg playing football, but that doesn't make football an "extreme sport". There is risk in everything.

Words are not opinions, they are defined in this book thing we call a dictionary.

You guys keep talking about dictionaries like they're some kind of holy relics or something. They're just books. Anyone who wants to can publish a dictionary and claim whatever status they want to for it and the words they contain. They're not absolute - and, in fact, they change over time to reflect changes to and uses of language.

Yes, it is wonderful but unfortunately for you, you are 1) wrong and 2) you are not an authority on word definitions 3) you need to get a dictionary and use it since you don't seem to understand the concept of a definition or a dictionary for that matter.

Thanks for expressing your opinion

 

[Nemrod]

I purchased two different setups. Cheng wanted something small, simple and recreational ... so I bought her a Fuji F100 with the Fuji housing.

I wanted something I could take wide-angle shots with, and could take to 200 feet ... so I got a Canon G10, Fisheye FIX housing, 15 mm wide-angle port, dual ultralight strobe arms, and a Sea & Sea YS-110a strobe (I already own a YS-25 I'll use as a slave for now).


I don't really care what other people dive ... not even people I teach scuba to. What I care about is that they understand the capabilities and limitations of their gear. Once that happens, people usually start making wiser gear choices ... but it's still their choices.

Most of the manufacturers I've gotten to know are people who's gear I will buy and use. And although I don't actively push anybody's gear, it often turns out that people I teach and dive with will buy gear from those same manufacturers ... mostly because I let 'em try my stuff at some point.

There are two things I look for in any manufacturer I'd recommend ... quality products and good customer service. The gear doesn't necessarily have to be something I'd personally use ... lots of people (most people, actually) dive a different style than me, and my gear choices might not be optimal for them. I do try to educate myself on other manufacturer's equipment ... even if I know I won't dive it ... because inevitably someone's going to ask me about it, and I'd like to be able to give an objective opinion (to the degree that that's possible, anyway).

I try not to make fun of other people's gear ... to my concern, "fun" should be reserved for what we do with it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Sounds like two fine set ups, post some pics when you get a chance. I was looking at that particular wet mount lens also but cannot figure it out from the web pics. As to the rest, what I said was in "sport" of the OPs context of attempted age segregation. As I have said before, no actual young dudes have been harmed by my Sea Hawk, yet.

N

 

[Nemrod]

This is a fantastic idea. I think that anyone older than 40 should be required to undergo this kind of testing and re-certification, every year. The fee would be modest - no more than $500/year. You're right man, that would be a great way to weed out the dead wood from the diving community.

Reminds me of what my old friend, President Andrew Jackson, once said: "It's a damn poor mind that can't think of more than one way to spell a word."

That's fine. The system of government of the U.S. is commonly referred to as a "democracy" too - but that doesn't make it one.

All "sports" involve risk. I once got a nasty paper cut playing poker - but that doesn't mean it's a sport. I once broke my leg playing football, but that doesn't make football an "extreme sport". There is risk in everything.

You guys keep talking about dictionaries like they're some kind of holy relics or something. They're just books. Anyone who wants to can publish a dictionary and claim whatever status they want to for it and the words they contain. They're not absolute - and, in fact, they change over time to reflect changes to and uses of language.

Thanks for expressing your opinion

Not an opinion, again, I refer you to a dictionary where you will want to look up the following words for your edification:

sport
definition
opinion
fact
BS

Dictionaries are not published by "anyone" and that statement is bordering upon ignorant and clearly an OPINION that is not supported by FACTS. Go ahead and publish a dictionary of your very own and author it as "Mr. Anybody" and see how many learned persons use it to consult.

Maybe put some cloths on and go back to school. I dunno.

N

 

[--tom--]

Ah, yes. This trite philosophy.

The Young vs old was regarding to "some" not all, dive companies out there who will choose not to adapt to the internet and thus resulting in fading away.

There was similar argument a while back. I think it involved Healthways and mail order. Same spin, different delivery. Similar market drivers, similar fears. Adapting does not necessarily mean selling on the internet; there are other adaptions that create a value-added niche.


And for the record, diving is a sport. It is a sport so that I can maintain my delusion that I am a professional athlete.