Why the dislike of air integrated computers?

[dmoore19]

In my case, I started out listening to the good people of ScubaBoard. I bought a Veo 250 thinking that AI was a waste of money. I made about 20 dives with it until I determined I wanted something AI. Again I listened to Scubaboard and feared the hoseless AI would surely fail soon and often so I bought a Cobra 3. I decided after about the same number of dives I wanted something else. I didn't dislike either of those computers, I just wanted something else. After being on a trip with someone who had hoseless AI and had no problems I traded/sold the 2 computers and bought a Datamask. I couldn't be happier. I kept the SPG that I first bought with the Veo and take it with me on trips. It has come in handy, I loaned it out to a guy who for some reason that I can't remember need it. I used it after the glass fell out of my Datamask and was glad it was in the bag.

I still read things about equipment and the advice people give but weigh it out for the way it would work for me then make the final decision.

 

[redacted]

Why waste your money on a back up if your primary is 100% reliable and you never have to worry about it? I only carry one light, and it's never failed me. Why do I need a backup?

---------- Post added July 5th, 2015 at 05:05 PM ----------

A few decades ago a car salesman was doing his best to convince me that I needed all of the extra features of the fully loaded vehicle he was trying to get me to buy. I told him I thought I had about the same need for those features as for gasoline powered sweat socks. Today those features are pretty much standard on every car sold everywhere. Maybe it will be similar for AI some day.

Right. Along with the new regulator and BCD technology.

 

[RJP]

Why do people use a plain SPG as a back up for a computer, but never a hoseless AI computer as a backup for an SPG? Hmmmm.

A $1200 backup for a $39 piece of gear would just be silly... though if it makes you feel better I'll officially start considering my Vytec as the backup to my SPG.



---------- Post added July 5th, 2015 at 06:16 PM ----------

In my case, I started out listening to the good people of ScubaBoard. I bought a Veo 250 thinking that AI was a waste of money. I made about 20 dives with it until I determined I wanted something AI. Again I listened to Scubaboard and feared the hoseless AI would surely fail soon and often so I bought a Cobra 3. I decided after about the same number of dives I wanted something else. I didn't dislike either of those computers, I just wanted something else. After being on a trip with someone who had hoseless AI and had no problems I traded/sold the 2 computers and bought a Datamask. I couldn't be happier. I kept the SPG that I first bought with the Veo and take it with me on trips. It has come in handy, I loaned it out to a guy who for some reason that I can't remember need it. I used it after the glass fell out of my Datamask and was glad it was in the bag.

I still read things about equipment and the advice people give but weigh it out for the way it would work for me then make the final decision.

RJP's Immutable Laws Of Scuba Economics

1. The best way to waste money on scuba gear is by getting a good deal on the wrong gear
2. The 2nd best way to waste money on scuba gear is by letting someone talk you into buying something other than what you really want to buy.

 

[TSandM]

My husband uses his AI Cobra as the backup to his hoseless AI D3 . . . go figure!

 

[drrich2]

In my case, I started out listening to the good people of ScubaBoard. I bought a Veo 250 thinking that AI was a waste of money. I made about 20 dives with it until I determined I wanted something AI. Again I listened to Scubaboard and feared the hoseless AI would surely fail soon and often so I bought a Cobra 3. I decided after about the same number of dives I wanted something else. I didn't dislike either of those computers, I just wanted something else. After being on a trip with someone who had hoseless AI and had no problems I traded/sold the 2 computers and bought a Datamask. I couldn't be happier.

This is the economy that gets missed or glossed over a lot. If you buy a computer with the option to add a transmitter later, it's less costly to add it later than buy another computer so you can.

Richard.

 

[boulderjohn]

In my case, I started out listening to the good people of ScubaBoard. ... Again I listened to Scubaboard and feared the hoseless AI would surely fail soon and often so I bought a Cobra 3.

I still read things about equipment and the advice people give but weigh it out for the way it would work for me then make the final decision.

Several famous people have said things like "History is made by those who show up" or "Decisions are made by those who show up." As someone who has sat on quite a number of decision-making committees over the years, I can assure you that the entire trend of decision making depends upon who showed up at a particular meeting, and what appears to be a slam dunk decision at one meeting can be completely overturned by someone new showing up at the next meeting. The same committee can make totally different decisions, depending solely upon attendance.

It gets worse when there is confusion. One very persuasive and determined person can carry more weight than is due simply because of that persuasiveness and persistence. Here is good quote about that effect:
“When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy. ”
― Dave Barry, Dave Barry Turns Fifty

When we go to social media for solutions to problems, the solution we get will depend upon who shows up in the thread in which you asked your question. You can ask the same question two weeks apart, and the consensus of the two threads can be completely different from one another. Before making a decision based on threads like this one, read a lot of them, and try to sift through the responses to find the ones that really make sense FOR YOU and the way you dive.

 

[redacted]

My husband uses his AI Cobra as the backup to his hoseless AI D3 . . . go figure!

For some folks, $$$$ is not an issue.:shocked2:

 

[AfterDark]

A few decades ago a car salesman was doing his best to convince me that I needed all of the extra features of the fully loaded vehicle he was trying to get me to buy. I told him I thought I had about the same need for those features as for gasoline powered sweat socks. Today those features are pretty much standard on every car sold everywhere. Maybe it will be similar for AI some day.

Someday but not today.

 

[Jax]

First, a disclaimer - all my AI experience is with the UWATEC technology.

Because it is another technology solution to a problem that does not exist.

Why must there be a problem? This statement requires the premise that everything is to solve a problem. You're wrong.

"advanced" divers don't want failure points, which you've done by adding the transmitter. By failure, I mean "something that can and will drain your tank the day it blows".
Finally, those things will manage to read your buddy's air instead of yours.

First of all, the UWATEC transmitters have a transducer in a solid metal device with a computer card added. It does not pass through gas. Anything that breaks off that transmitter will do the same to any high pressure hose. In that case, you have way more problems than an added transmitter. That is a huge amount of force to break that transmitter mount!

Second - must be a very cheap transmitter/computer that can pair with a different transmitter. UWATEC offers a buddy-monitoring setting for the convenience of a parent with a new diver. If I want to know, I just cycle through the "on" transmitters to see what my young diver is consuming.

I guess the question is, what problem are you trying to solve.

Again, why must there be a problem to be solved? We don't dive in your mindset. It doesn't make us any less capable.

I have used a transmitter with a Suunto for about 150 dives, mostly on a twinset. I lost the signal a couple of times early on, but never recently. I no longer think about syncing, they are synced and stay so..

As a result I know my SAC in various different circumstances, from being idle watching seals to finning against the tide. This is not essential but interesting. However if I am standing on a boat looking at a running tide I think I am better informed about whether my plan still applies.

I recently had a proper free flow, so now I have a graph of air loss over time, it shows me how long the shutdown took and how much gas I lost. Again, not essential but interesting. Do you REALLY know how long a surprise shutdown takes?

As for routing and failure points, obviously you need to think about where to place the transmitter to avoid exposing it to damage or getting in the way of valves but it is possible - I have mine on an Apeks DST. Failure wise - one oring goes, one comes and a transducer is exposed to the gas. Is there any record of such a transducer loosing a diver gas?

Exactly -- some of us like the data. So what? Why do those of you who believe everything must be a "solution" have to disparage others' choices?

When in Tonga I saw a transmitter blow the end completely off. Brand new transmitter too. Back to an SPG for him.

Fascinating. I have . . . 10 transmitters, I think. Never broke any, but I did drown one once.

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone. To summarize, the main "objection" to AI seems to be cost, followed by it delivering information that's not necessarily relevant. There's also some anecdotal evidence of equipment failure, and I'd agree that the sync process (I have an Oceanic) can be finicky.

And why on Earth would anyone disparage someone else' equipment? If I choose to spend the money, what business is it of yours?


Very sad that such a thread would generate 8 pages in just a few days. It really is no one else' business except the owning diver.

 

[RJP]

Why must there be a problem? This statement requires the premise that everything is to solve a problem. You're wrong.

From a marketing/design standpoint "solving a problem" is synonymous with "meeting a need." Every product and/or feature solves a problem. Some of those problems/needs don't really exist from a functional standpoint. However many products solve emotional problems/meet emotional needs.

---------- Post added July 5th, 2015 at 08:00 PM ----------

Exactly -- some of us like the data. So what?

Right... so you seek a product that "solves the problem" of "not enough data."