Why I have decided to stop shopping for ANYTHING at the LDS

[lamont]

I'm sorry, Bob, but I don't buy into this one either. There just isn't that much maintenance that needs to be done. We have a top of the line Bauer at work, and while the initial expense was rather high, the maintenance is next to nil. We move a LOT of air through it in a years time, cubic foot wise. Even figuring it at $3 per fill, this thing has more than paid for itself in the last 5 years. From that point on, it's just electricity and inspections along with regular filter changes. We can pencil whip this thing to death, but in the end, regular air just doesn't cost that much.

I think some of the problem may be that shops spend a lot of money on banks, membrane systems, etc and it takes a *lot* of fills to recoup those costs.

Also, if you're not selling gear and just selling fills, those fills won't pay your rent or your employees. The $40/fill number may be what it would cost to keep the fill station running with divers only buying fills and not gear...

 

[djanni]

I don't understand, if this guy is the pondscum you describe why in the world would you buy air from him? Very Strange. I must be missing something.

No real need to answer that question.

So, this past week I had gone to my LDS and said, Hey, I need a wrist mount compass boot and a computer boot. He had had the computer boot in stock, but not the compass boot, Ok, says I, gimme the computer boot, and I will come back for the compass boot on monday or tuesday. He had quoted me a price on each boot of 16 bux, which I thought was perfect since http://shop.diversdirect.com/item/Aeris%20Compass%20Wrist%20Boot_ID12139 has them at 13 bucks. I like supporting local business and it was worth 3 bux to me. I paid for the computer boot right then and there, and took the computer with me, but no compass. I paid for the compass boot when I picked it up last night. 38 dollars! (mind you this is with 2 air fills at 3 dollars a piece so 32 bux) He under quoted me by 100%. I say "hey whats up" and he says "i am not making any money off of you this is what it cost me"...While I am a nice guy and don't like confrontation I wanted to slap him in the face and point him only at divers direct where he could order them himself for 13 bux, and have still made some sort of profit. Needless to say, he will only be seeing air fill purchases from me in the future.

 

[jonnythan]

I find it almost comical (as well as sad) that those that say " I can get it cheaper online" dont fully realize the difference between a LDS & an online shop with little/minimal overhead. Now, thats not to say that online shops don't have their place......

I just think its ignorant as well as unfair to compare the 2. But,........., if im not careful, I will be drawn into a debate that has been debated to death!!

I find it comical when people instantly think online retailers have no overhead.

Not only does it cost a lot to maintain a web site and online ordering system, but most of the online stores are actual brick and mortar dive shops with an online presence, so they have greater overhead vs the LDS.

 

[Corigan]

Web Hosting Fees, Bandwidth, Shopping Cart/Credit Card/Merchant Account Fees, Web Development Teams (webmasters), shipping/printing servers for labels, etc. etc. Not to mention warehouse space (storing retail) as well as office space to run the frontend.

It isn't cheap either way you do it. LDS with a storefront or a warehouse internet company.

Matt

 

[Hoosier]

LOL~~ don't assume that LDS knows about it.

If LDSs know about it, they are already in the internet market like ScubaToys, scuba.com, NESS, diveriteexpress, etc.....

Web Hosting Fees, Bandwidth, Shopping Cart/Credit Card/Merchant Account Fees, Web Development Teams (webmasters), shipping/printing servers for labels, etc. etc. Not to mention warehouse space (storing retail) as well as office space to run the frontend.

It isn't cheap either way you do it. LDS with a storefront or a warehouse internet company.

Matt

 

[CIBDiving]

Maybe the lds guy misquoted on the request - It would be an act of good faith to provide it for the original quoted amount and that would certainly make me feel like that the guy knows his business and is in it for the long haul, and would see future business from me.

I've had the same thing happen a number of times.
One time in particular, it was a very similar thing. I'd come in to buy a computer. This was a while back so it was a "hockey puck" type. I ordered the Wrist Mount version for $xxx. I don't remember the exact price but it was in the ballpark for other wrist mount computers at that time, and about $15 higher than the same computer bare for a console. When the computer came in ( yes they had to order it, and I payed up front), I found no boot in the box. When I asked I was told that it would be $25 more for that but they had one in stock! I asked Why a WRIST MOUNT version of the computer came without a wrist mount and got a line of BS. I never bought another thing from them.
That owner now runs a pizza parlor BTW.

I was in the market for a couple of new tanks last year. When I told a LDS about that I was informed He had some on order and he'd let me have 2 at , what up here in AK, is a very good price. On delivery, I started to pay the amount I was quoted, he wanted $40 a bottle more, when I told him he'd quoted me $XXX for the 2, not his amount I got something about the Valves not being included in the quote. I was going to leave but he made me a 'deal' on the valves and I bought both bottles.

Now, I can understand ( and forgive ) an Honest mistake, and Owner shouldn't have to take it in the shorts just because he read the wrong line in the book, profits are to low in a dive shop as it is! But Admitting you screwed up and trying to make it better is the way to go, Not just cheating the customer. Or leaving the Customer to FEEL cheated, that's ultimatly just as bad for biz as truely cheating them.

 

[Florabama]

This is why so many local dive shops come and go. I have a good shop in town now that treats me right, but for years, I hated going into a local shop. They didn't want to waste their time with you if you weren't spending money, and the prices were out of sight due to the fact that you had no other choice. With the advent of the internet, dive shops like all other retail businesses, are finding that their customers have other options, and this is going to change the complexion of the local shop.

The shop in question should not have done that to Lord1234, and if I were him, I would not go back either, but I would have told them why I wasn't coming back, so they would know.

 

[sharpenu]

You can purchase a small compressor for a little less than $3K. It comes with the break in oil (first 12 hours) and the second set of oil. It has a 5 hp electric motor, which costs about 50 cents an hour in electricity to run. The ad says it can fill 3-AL80's an hour. Just during the break in period, you get 36 fills while spending $6 on electricity.

Other than the initial cost of the compressor, it is cheap to fill yourself. If you, and say three of your diving friends chip in $800 apiece, you can buy and run this thing through about 2,000 fills. That works out to about $1.50 a fill.

I don't think as an LDS owner that you can justify charging $600 for a BC that can be had from LP for $375 and then expect me to pay those kinds of mark ups while kissing your ring in thanks because you are overcharging me for air, as well.

If the LDS doesn't fix their business model, they will go away and I will pump my own air.

 

[Firefyter]

I think some of the problem may be that shops spend a lot of money on banks, membrane systems, etc and it takes a *lot* of fills to recoup those costs.

You're absolutely right, it does take a LOT of fills to recoup, but the system should be good for a LOT more fills after it does pay for itself.

Also, if you're not selling gear and just selling fills, those fills won't pay your rent or your employees. The $40/fill number may be what it would cost to keep the fill station running with divers only buying fills and not gear...

Again, you're right. It would be hard to make a living with the money you would make just off of fills. The thing is, they keep trying to tell us how air fills are a loss leader, and it just aint so. There is plenty of money in air fills, you just can't let that be the only thing you're selling. Most LDS's are making huge markups on the rest of their gear, and they whine about the one thing that has a reasonable markup, which is the air fill.

I agree with the rest of your assertions as well. If they don't change their business model, the compressor retail market will be a good field to be in really soon.

 

[serambin]

Ok, one of the local shops in my area makes their money on the new student. The average 'kit' price is $3500.00 and this includes the OW cert and materials as well as a good diving gear package. It also includes pool privileges and they do an adopt-a-tank program where you pay $150.00 and you get free refills with no charge for tank rental or maintenance.

For someone just starting out, that stays a diver, it's not really all that bad. Sure, they could buy the equipment off the net for about $2000.00, but for the most part, they don't know what to buy. (For that matter, neither do we, with the exception of the narrow range of gear we use) So they get certified, they meet other local divers who are interested in the sport and go on locally sponsored trips. This works unless after a few dives, they quit diving. Now the $3500.00 in gear ends up in a garage sale and the customer takes a beating.

But from the LDS's point of view, their income depends on the 'new' and often passing customer. Once you buy your gear, how mush additional money do you spend in a year? Mostly, if you spend over a few hunderd dollars on anything, it's on dive trips. The LDS must have the new 'buying blood' in a contant flow or profit crumbles.

I play golf. For me to go to a decent local course on a weekend costs at least $40.00, and that's for a four hour round. Yet when you look at a two dive day, your talking only $6 - $10 for air. The model is broken for most shops because they don't participate in selling the whole dive package. Transportation, accomodation and service charges for getting you to, and providing a dive vacation.

The business is really the tourism industry, the only twist is what you do when you get to the destination.

Last point. The Internet service industry (at least the web side) doesn't produce new divers. Certification is a local process. Only after an individual is certified can the Internet product provider sell them anything. An individual who is certified can purchase off the Internet, but not the neubie, they require local contact. So, you're stuck with the LDS at some level.