Why I have decided to stop shopping for ANYTHING at the LDS

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Scuba:
From a business cost effective perspective, the numbers have to be worked out ahead of time. This can be complex or fairly simple, and there are no guarantee's from errors or market changes. The example you give appears to show you purchased too much compressor for your needs. You probably could have met your needs with a lesser but more cost effective compressor? Did you deduct resale price/value from your p/fill cost calculations?

Actually we limped along with a 5 cfm compressor which is pretty small. when it became clear that it wouldn't meet peak demand (like getting ready for a class or on a friday night) we added a bank system to spread the demand out. The extra cost of things like auto drains and shut offs were required because sometimes you interupted when the banks are filling unless you spend the night there...heck even then.

When I made those calculations I did not include resale value of the compressor. If I looked for a 2 year pay back on investment as I've always been required to do as an engineer I could never have made it fly even though you may not fully depreciate it in 2 years.

One of my main points was that a dive shop doesn't have a choice as to whether or not to have a fill station. With most manufacturers you are simply required to have one in order to sell their equipment. If you wanted gas sales to be a profit center (where we were) I don't think you couldn't justify thas cost of any compressor...which is why there are no "fill express" type places around here. Outside of what you use teaching the volume just isn't worth looking at. Unfortunately classes, at least Ow classes which is what you teach most of are also very often a loss leader. It all exists to sell equipment. If the shop must be cost competative with the businesses that are able to do aw3ay with instruction and a fill station the whole thing becomes just performing a service for the community out of the goodness of your heart.

I would have loved to sell equipment for a reasonable markup on the time it took me to order it. however, when you're not allowed to sell mail order or internet (which most manufacturers didn't allow at the time) you are destined to whatever volume the local market represents which puts you at a hege disadvantage when competing eith the likes of LP. The shop is saddled with all the restrictions, overhead and the lower volume. Admitedly, many manufacturers have started to allow internet sales but they still have the price restrictions. Enforcement may be spotty and inconsistant but trust me they do enforce it when it suits them.

Personally, I don't really sympothize much with the shops. They let the tail wag the dog. The manufacturers and agencies are clearly the archetects of the model and treat the shops like anything but a customer...more like an employee. Do you think it's coincedence that the co-founder of the largest agency was also VP of one of the largest manufacturers? Sales reps are pretty bold about walking into a shop with threats and demands for a bunch of non-diving jack azzes. Talk about parasites. they show up every year for just long enough to make you mad for the rest of the year and for that they get a commision on all your business! Kudos to the manufacturers who have dome away with their leeches...I mean sales reps. Boy could I tell some stories. LOL. Until the shops wise up and put their foot down, they won't be seeing much of me. You asked for it and you go it toyota!

The whole thing is backwards. Divers aren't treated like customers and even worse are regulated...by a store?...just go in and try to buy a rebuild kit for your reg. The manufacturers treat the shops like employees even though it's the shop who takes all the risk. Who is the customer here anyway? Of all, the divers, as a group, are even dummer because they usually swallow the whole thing.
 
mrgonz:
I decided to not visit my LDS anymore for nothing but fills and defog and this is why.

I went to sign up for their AOW course and was about to pay for everything, when they asked about my gear. I told them I didn't have to rent because I had everything but tanks and weights. They said they would need some kind of proof that I bouth it and had it assembled at a reputable dive shop, and I had to tell them I bought everything at LP and my friend, who has been diving for 20 years and worked for a very long time in that Dive shop assembling and repairing gear put my things together. They said no, and that I would have to rent all the gear for the AOW dives because of "insurance purpouses" (which as my friend told me, is BS).

I bought the AOW book from them and said goodbye.

You could have gotten the book cheaper on line too so they still gotcha! I would have told them it wasn't any of their business where I got my gear. regardless of where you got it that isn't a guarantee that it's in working order at the time of the class which is a valid concern. The point here is that you were already a certified diver and can dive whatever equipment you want as long as it meets the agencies training standards. Using bad judgement within training standards is the only real way the shop would be increase their legal risk. As you know, they flat out lied to you and it's because the main idea behind the OW class is the extra equipment that it's suppose to sell...and that's the way PADI teaches instructors and shops. If you don't buy or rent something there really is very little advantage to having you in the class as is evident by the fact that they turned you away.
 
Totally right.
They went on how I would have to service it before using my gear because it wasnt assembled by god himself, so I told them that I could service my gear 100 times with the money I saved. The computer they had fpr $850 (oceanic proplus 2) I spent just over $500, and with compadd and quick disconnect.

I paid about $30 for the book, which considering shipping fees is pretty much the same I'd have paid online, so I really didn't min.

But the deal is, for being greedy now they lost all chance of having me as a student again (planned to do AOW, EFR, Rescue and Nitrox with them).

Leading themselves to their own doom!
 
I never thought I'd say this... but personally I would like to see SCUBA become more regulated by the Government. The almighty agencies under the RSTC have become only money hungry mongrels. Now I support the American dream and everyones right to start and run a profitable business, but not at the risk of peoples lives. The main agencies have all turned a blind eye to contraindications for diving - and have taken the approach that if a doctor will sign a medical form, then they (the shop) will take the customers money. This immoral attitude shows clear disregard for human life. "So Say We All!" - Me myself and I
 
Couldn't agree more.

On my OW class, when people were filling out their medical sheet, the instructor said "but remember this while answering the questions... if you say "yes" to any of the, you will have to drop the class and get a waiver from your doctor, and restart at a future date"... truth or hint?
 
The overtly subliminal way of saying check NO... check NO...


mrgonz:
Couldn't agree more.

On my OW class, when people were filling out their medical sheet, the instructor said "but remember this while answering the questions... if you say "yes" to any of the, you will have to drop the class and get a waiver from your doctor, and restart at a future date"... truth or hint?
 
mrgonz:
But the deal is, for being greedy now they lost all chance of having me as a student again (planned to do AOW, EFR, Rescue and Nitrox with them).

Leading themselves to their own doom!

On top of that, divers are a pretty small community in most areas. When you do this sort of thing to customers word gets around the diving community very quickly. So not only do you lose one customer for the future, but you could lose others due to the bad word of mouth.
 
RIOceanographer:
On top of that, divers are a pretty small community in most areas. When you do this sort of thing to customers word gets around the diving community very quickly. So not only do you lose one customer for the future, but you could lose others due to the bad word of mouth.
Very true aswell.

Here in westchester county, we only have 2 or 3 diveshops, and im sure i'm not the only one with bad experiences from this shop.

The costumer service is also horrible. I've been working in retail for years and one thing i know is that if you want costumers, you must treat them like royalty... well on most cases.

Aghhh I'll stop

< / end rant>
 
O.K. My education is now complete. Agencies are " money hungry mongrels", shop owners are rich and "greedy", and customers are cheap, two faced hypocrites. But Big Brother will put it all right!
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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