Question Near incident. What should I have done?

[Cthippo]

I know I'm late here, but I want to offer a similar experience this past week from the Red Sea as well (BDE route).

I was buddied up with another diver who was a bit heavy on air but generally good at conserving it during 3 easy check dives, and he added a 15L tank. On the second day we were doing Elphinstone and they changed the group we were in to one with a different guide than we had for the check dives. We were told the plan for Elphinstone was to follow the guide to 30m on a drift from north to south, look for hammerheads, and then rise up explore the southern plateau. He would check our air at intervals so we could plan to surface as a group with him deploying his DSMB and us doing the whole two-by-two zodiac pickup while looking out for white tips.

At the start of the dive, the guide takes off into the blue with his camera and we're all struggling to keep up. We're down at 30m for way too long IMO. My buddy lets me know when he's at half tank and so we attempt multiple times to signal the guide (sounds, waves, trying to catch up to grab his fins, whatever), as we were told to let him know when at half tank so he can plan the gradual ascent. The guide didn't turn around a single time during this dive. So my buddy and I start shallowing up. But within 5 mins my buddy signals he's at 60 bar, we're at 20m. Ok, clearly we need to start a safety stop fairly soon. I try again to signal the guide; I have thrown out the idea of trying to catch up with him because I don't need my buddy to burn more air during the swim, luckily someone else in the group hears my banging and gets the guide's attention. I point to my buddy and signal 60 bar. The guide signals that we (just my buddy and I) should do a safety stop. The briefing said to deploy a DSMB for a safety stop so I start to get mine ready and I deploy it while the guide continues to drift with the rest of the group. I see the zodiac come around so we hang and do our 3 mins but then suddenly two others from the group decide to join my DSMB for the safety stop. I point to my buddy that he should go up on the zodiac as he's low on air, I'll hang with my DSMB so the others can complete their stop. Instead, everyone except me tries to surface at once and they all surface swim for the zodiac instead of surfacing underneath it one by one. Suddenly, the guide is next to me admonishing *me* for their behavior, and once we all get back onboard he yells at me for deploying my DoSMB, tells me we should have waited for him and that we can "always buddy breathe, better to follow the guide."

I also like you spent a few days ruminating on how I could have done it better. But sometimes we have to make judgment calls when we're left to our own devices by guides more interested in photos/whatever instead of being more attentive. I don't mind guides who have a plan and dive it, and I don't mind unguided diving either, but I do bloody mind guides who don't dive the plan (including being attentive to their group) and then blame the group for having to make decisions on the fly.

Yeah, F that guide. You are responsible for your safety and you took that responsibility seriously and did what needed to be done to prevent an OOA emergency.

 

[rongoodman]

Brothers, Daedalus, & Elphinstone

 

[fluff_astrid]

Hi, given your diving issues you have listed in your thread, here

Getting more comfortable with current diving and better at negative descents

Recently did some diving at BDE, where I found myself once again struggling with currents and zodiac drops despite over 200 dives, including some intense ones at Raja Ampat. I still to this day struggle to enjoy a drift or current dive, and I want to be able to handle them better and stop being...

scubaboard.com

How at 0400hrs are you able to type an unaffected account here

Could you please tell me what the BDE you refer to is thank you.

In this particular dive I had only a little struggle getting down but once there the current was fairy minimal on this particular dive.

Not all dives from RIBs were a struggle nor are all dives with currents a struggle; it's just a general comment about how they can stress me out or provide difficulties. I am still a diver that can complete dives just fine. BDE is just a particular kind of route. In this case I suppose an actual incident sharpened my focus and I was able to respond appropriately.

Not sure what you're implying by "an unaffected account at 0400 hrs". Liveaboards are made up of dozens of dives and some will be different than the others. I never once said that I couldn't do the dives, just that I find negative entries and heavy current more stressful/difficult than enjoyable.

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

he as an instructor always has plenty of air left to give

He, as an instructor, should've either been teaching a class, or DM'ing a group dive. NOT both. His bosses who thought this was a good idea, should've been chewed out for that. Anyone can call a dive, for any reason, full stop, period.

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

At the start of the dive, the guide takes off into the blue with his camera and we're all struggling to keep up.

I will step out in the open and say a guide, leading a group of unfamiliar divers especially, has no business taking any form of camera with him. His job is to lead the dive, not sightsee and pictures take.

I can be an @$$h0£e and would likely been right back in the DM's face over his lack or professionalism and abrogated actions re: minding business he was supposed to do. I know you're in the middle of nowhere, but...

 

[lermontov]

lets face it, the bar is pretty low to become a DM or instructor. At the same time the bar is also pretty low to achieve an AOW cert. (in general agency standards I get the impression GUE standards may be higher)

The business model is get more people diving and generate income by numbers but at some point in time individuals need to take responsibility for themselves ( which in this case the OP seems to have done) Ive had some pretty bad/strange advise over the years from DM who are less experienced than myself.. unfortunately until you get the experience its hard to argue question them

There probably a culture difference between countries but my observation is that US is way more conservative then my country and the clients have too high an expectation on someone else to keep them safe

 

[OctopusLover]

I know I'm late here, but I want to offer a similar experience this past week from the Red Sea as well (BDE route).

I was buddied up with another diver who was a bit heavy on air but generally good at conserving it during 3 easy check dives, and he added a 15L tank. On the second day we were doing Elphinstone and they changed the group we were in to one with a different guide than we had for the check dives. We were told the plan for Elphinstone was to follow the guide to 30m on a drift from north to south, look for hammerheads, and then rise up explore the southern plateau. He would check our air at intervals so we could plan to surface as a group with him deploying his DSMB and us doing the whole two-by-two zodiac pickup while looking out for white tips.

At the start of the dive, the guide takes off into the blue with his camera and we're all struggling to keep up. We're down at 30m for way too long IMO. My buddy lets me know when he's at half tank and so we attempt multiple times to signal the guide (sounds, waves, trying to catch up to grab his fins, whatever), as we were told to let him know when at half tank so he can plan the gradual ascent. The guide didn't turn around a single time during this dive. So my buddy and I start shallowing up. But within 5 mins my buddy signals he's at 60 bar, we're at 20m. Ok, clearly we need to start a safety stop fairly soon. I try again to signal the guide; I have thrown out the idea of trying to catch up with him because I don't need my buddy to burn more air during the swim, luckily someone else in the group hears my banging and gets the guide's attention. I point to my buddy and signal 60 bar. The guide signals that we (just my buddy and I) should do a safety stop. The briefing said to deploy a DSMB for a safety stop so I start to get mine ready and I deploy it while the guide continues to drift with the rest of the group. I see the zodiac come around so we hang and do our 3 mins but then suddenly two others from the group decide to join my DSMB for the safety stop. I point to my buddy that he should go up on the zodiac as he's low on air, I'll hang with my DSMB so the others can complete their stop. Instead, everyone except me tries to surface at once and they all surface swim for the zodiac instead of surfacing underneath it one by one. Suddenly, the guide is next to me admonishing *me* for their behavior, and once we all get back onboard he yells at me for deploying my DoSMB, tells me we should have waited for him and that we can "always buddy breathe, better to follow the guide."

I also like you spent a few days ruminating on how I could have done it better. But sometimes we have to make judgment calls when we're left to our own devices by guides more interested in photos/whatever instead of being more attentive. I don't mind guides who have a plan and dive it, and I don't mind unguided diving either, but I do bloody mind guides who don't dive the plan (including being attentive to their group) and then blame the group for having to make decisions on the fly.

Damn, this almost sounds like the exact instructor I had. Does his name begin with O and has afro hair?

 

[Dave545]

Seems like way too much for that one instructor. Safety first as well, definitely no penetrating that low on gas especially somewhere not familiar.