Why aren’t scrubber monitors (aka TempStick) standard on all rebreathers?

[Wibble]

Added to that is the massive cost of CE approval. This stifles incremental development.

Just seems odd that something that's pretty useful isn't available on most rebreathers.

 

[billgraham]

My feeling was always that sorb is relatively inexpensive so if I did two dives on a canister, or one dive and then it sat for a while, I'd just throw it out and pack a new one. I never got close to the actual duration.

 

[rjack321]

Added to that is the massive cost of CE approval. This stifles incremental development.

Just seems odd that something that's pretty useful isn't available on most rebreathers.

1) Many CCRs are using radial scrubbers and the bed depth really isnt compatible with sticking probes in there.
2) It's one more thing to pay for and go wrong. The Kiss classic is still alive and kicking 20+ years after Gordon created it because it deleted all the bells and whistles YBODs of that era came with.

 

[stuartv]

@Wibble - market demand. Most manufacturers won't create things that won't succeed in the broad market. As seen in this thread, many divers don't want to pay for extras. As there are no regulations that mandate CO2 sensors or temp sticks, it is a simple decision.

The lack of a strong market demand does not diminish the value of temp sticks or CO2 monitors. These devices are not to tell you how long the scrubber will last but to alert you before things go south. If I had a temp stick in my rEvo, I'd still cycle sorb as advised.

That's easy for you to say when you don't have it and have never tried it.

Old rEvo rMS components are well known for failing. Though, as far as I know, their failure mode is always simply no longer giving you a reading. They don't fail by telling you that you still have life in your sorb when you don't. So, rMS failure is not going to kill you. It's just going to require you to cycle out sorb sooner than you otherwise would have.

When your rMS is broken, you can turn it off in the controller and dive the unit exactly the same way you dive one that doesn't have rMS. Or, you don't even have to change the controller and you can still dive it the same way, just ignoring the little red X's on the controller display.

I have bought 2 used (pretty old) rEvos with rMS. Both either had broken rMS or it broke shortly after I bought it. All the rMS components I have replaced are still working fine.

I think rEvo rMS earned a reputation as unreliable (meaning that it broke, not that it gave erroneous readings) in its early days, but that reputation is no longer deserved.

If you follow the rMS and do use it as a "fuel gauge" to judge how long you have left on your sorb, it is worth noting that what you SHOULD be doing is using to gauge how long you have left on your TOP scrubber basket. That means that even when you push it to its very limit, you still have the whole second basket of sorb back-stopping your safety. Using rMS to utilize your sorb down to the limits of your bottom basket is definitely not advised.

If you have working rMS and you still follow factory guidelines for sorb usage, you are simply willfully wasting sorb. No big deal, if that's your thing. When the gas gauge in your car gets down to a quarter tank, you are also welcome to drain and toss that last few gallons of gasoline before filling up, too, if you want.

If you don't have working rMS, then you absolutely should follow factory guidelines. You'll be wasting sorb the majority of the time, but you don't have enough information to really let you do otherwise.

 

[Tracy]

I don't pursue it as it doesn't add information that I deem useful during the dive. Same reason I don't like my nerd and prefer a simple HUD. It is lots of information easily available, but not information that I care about during the dive.

 

[SavageSeaCow]

That's easy for you to say when you don't have it and have never tried it.

Old rEvo rMS components are well known for failing. Though, as far as I know, their failure mode is always simply no longer giving you a reading. They don't fail by telling you that you still have life in your sorb when you don't. So, rMS failure is not going to kill you. It's just going to require you to cycle out sorb sooner than you otherwise would have.

When your rMS is broken, you can turn it off in the controller and dive the unit exactly the same way you dive one that doesn't have rMS. Or, you don't even have to change the controller and you can still dive it the same way, just ignoring the little red X's on the controller display.

I have bought 2 used (pretty old) rEvos with rMS. Both either had broken rMS or it broke shortly after I bought it. All the rMS components I have replaced are still working fine.

I think rEvo rMS earned a reputation as unreliable (meaning that it broke, not that it gave erroneous readings) in its early days, but that reputation is no longer deserved.

If you follow the rMS and do use it as a "fuel gauge" to judge how long you have left on your sorb, it is worth noting that what you SHOULD be doing is using to gauge how long you have left on your TOP scrubber basket. That means that even when you push it to its very limit, you still have the whole second basket of sorb back-stopping your safety. Using rMS to utilize your sorb down to the limits of your bottom basket is definitely not advised.

If you have working rMS and you still follow factory guidelines for sorb usage, you are simply willfully wasting sorb. No big deal, if that's your thing. When the gas gauge in your car gets down to a quarter tank, you are also welcome to drain and toss that last few gallons of gasoline before filling up, too, if you want.

If you don't have working rMS, then you absolutely should follow factory guidelines. You'll be wasting sorb the majority of the time, but you don't have enough information to really let you do otherwise.

I find the rms very useful, especially when diving in places where sorb is not plentiful. There are a number of little dots in the pacific that can support you with O2 but are extremely limited for sorb. This is probably a bigger issue now with supply chain etc. It’s very comforting to be able to do a couple of days of diving (5 or more hours) and know you have yet to break through into your second scrubber and can safely rotate it.

It would be really cool to see Fathom do something like that on the Gemini, especially given that it’s designed for extended cave exploration.

 

[grantctobin]

It would be really cool to see Fathom do something like that on the Gemini, especially given that it’s designed for extended cave exploration.

You can get sorb to Chuuk, Bikini, and even other places with a bit of planning. Where are you imagining that has oxygen but sorb can't be flown in or shipped or brought with you?

Sidenote, I'm much happier not having another battery or thing to break and warrant unit return to mfg.

 

[stuartv]

You can get sorb to Chuuk, Bikini, and even other places with a bit of planning. Where are you imagining that has oxygen but sorb can't be flown in or shipped or brought with you?

Sidenote, I'm much happier not having another battery or thing to break and warrant unit return to mfg.

rMS does not require an extra battery. IF it breaks, you can continue diving the same as if you don't have it.

I reckon mine has paid for the cost difference just in savings on sorb. I regularly get 1.5 to 2 X as much time out of my sorb as the factory spec would allow for.

 

[grantctobin]

rMS does not require an extra battery.

How do you think your rMS works?

 

[stuartv]

How do you think your rMS works?

Are you suggesting that there are more batteries in my rEvo than there are in a rEvo that does not have rMS?