Why are so many female divers codependent?

[ZenDiver.3D]

Now after all my rambling, let me make a point. Of Course the planned helpless and dependent females, are just a small group of the total of ovary toting divers. The majority are women who are true dive buddies with shared responsibilities and independent divers in their own rights.

Yes my hubby and I work as a team when we get to dive together. But the key word is team. Many of you have it. I think we were talking about the ones who are not playing

 

[Sas]

I have not seen a female diver I think is dependent yet... I guess I have only been diving since the start of the year but I have been on boats with a lot of female divers, had female instructors, female DMs and so on. I know there are always more guys on the boat but that is a separate issue as that doesn't mean that the women who do dive are dependent, just that there is less than them. But yea, given I dive in coldish waters that often have poor viz and other dodgy conditions, I don't think you'd get many people diving who weren't really into it.

I guess I don't have many female friends given I have studied and now worked in two male dominated industries (economics and IT) so can't really say what the majority of women are like. I think if the OP's post is accurate (and you'd need some actual data before you could claim that) then it would point to a cultural attitude towards gender roles than an innate difference, in my opinion.

I think if my partner ever comes diving with me, it will be me carrying his equipment, deciding on dive sites and leading the dives actually. Not that he is dependent himself, we're both just really independent and like our own things, and occasionally check out what the other is doing. He likes to drive his car as he's into performance cars so if we're going somewhere with good roads he insists on driving. But if we do my hobby, then he can follow me! We do share one hobby though, playing PC first person shooter games together and he plays sniper and I play assault so he covers me while I do the missions.. dunno what that says about our relationship and our level of dependence on each other though...!

 

[Noboundaries]

I've made a great hobby of observing human behavior. One of the greatest faults of our species is the practice of limiting one's perspective to your own frame of reference. What naturally results is a tendency to criticize everyone who does not think, act, or look like you do. It is called a "centrist" nature and it is the root of all behavior and judgment, good and bad. It is instinctual in the human species.

As a trained counselor in a former job I had to learn to get out of my own way so I could get into the heads of others, and arrive there without my prejudices. In the process I learned quite a bit about myself while learning to help others. This thread has been fascinating to read from that perspective.

My wife and I are dive buddies. Alhough I open doors for her and offer unsolicited assistance, it's never crossed my mind to set up her dive gear. Out of our limited 47 dives we've only had six dives when we weren't in the water with a DM, instructor, or a more experienced diver. I call them "solo" dives. After our last trip when I led three of those solo dives, she said "next trip I want to lead." My response? "Cool."

Bottom line, whether dependent or not, whether you set up your gear or somebody does it for you, if your behavior while diving is natural for you, enjoy. Everything we do every day telegraphs to the world something about each of us. If you don't like the message, change. If it makes you smile, congratulations. Regardless, others will still judge what you communicate. Their feelings are their issues, not yours. When you can smile about yourself and be indifferent to the feelings of others about you, you'll know true personal freedom. Diving, no matter how you do it, should be a demonstration of that freedom.

Now, having said all that gobblygook, I judge everyone on the dive boat as people I can trust or not while in the water. There are those I will avoid and those I will connect with. I expect them to do the same of me. I prefer people who set up their own gear and who are independent; so does my wife (who is reading this as I type). The dependent types can enjoy each other's company as easily as the independent types can. In the end, we're all divers.

 

[Dive-aholic]

RB, I think your just diving around the wrong women.

My wife is pretty independent. We've gone through all of our training together and she's held her own. We're both instructors, cave divers, and trimix trained. She's done solo cave dives. Now, when we're both diving, I'll usually haul the tanks to the water (on a hand cart) while she sets up the rest of the gear. That's not dependence, though. I'm stronger so I haul the steel. But even I depend on the cart to do the hard work. She sets up lights, computers, carries the deco bottles to the water, etc. It's just a fair distribution of the predive setup.

 

[fldivejunkie]

I work as a DM on a dive boat and I see quite a large variety of people. While it is true that some women need help from their significant other to set up their gear (I've seen several men in the same situation), it seems to be the exception rather than the rule. And, it seems to be more common with newer divers than with experienced divers. Occasionally you see couples that help each other set up, but it is more that they are helping each other, not doing it for them. There is a big difference between having someone set up your gear because you are clueless and a buddy team helping each other out. If you dive, you should know the gear and how to set it up. If you don't know, then what are you doing in the water?

I dive with several other women on a regular basis and none us would even consider letting someone set up our gear (schlep our tanks from the car/truck . . . sure). While I personally don't like anyone else to touch my gear, I certainly don't condemn those that will allow someone to else to do it for them . . . . as long as they are checking to make sure it's right. In the end, we are all responsible for making sure our gear is properly set up and everything is functioning correctly. It's my life support system, so I want to know that it's done right.

 

[HonuDreamin]

I don't dive enough to question the generalities used here - I have no doubt that there are a fair share of women who let the men do the "heavy lifting." But I thought I would share an opinion or two on the dependency issue.

My husband is my dive buddy. We were certified together, dive every single dive together and share our responsibilities equitably. Yeah, he can lift more than me, but I'm the one who triple-checks that we have everything before we leave for the boat. He has a detail-oriented mind and is wayyy better at checking the gear setup, but I capture all of the dive information afterwards. He knows that I prefer to get in the water last (and he tries to help make sure that happens) and I know that he prefers me to keep a more frequent check on depth, temp and time. And on and on... Does this mean I CANT go diving without him - well, no, but I won't.

I can't imagine having such an amazing time without him there. We enjoy looking for the same things, going at the same pace, we have even developed about a dozen of our own hand signals to talk underwater. And well the trust issue is obviously important as well. There is no one on the planet I would trust more than my husband to make sure that I was safe (and vice versa.)

I don't know - it's just my 2. (EDIT:I just noticed PapaSteve said it better than me - and earlier. Kudos.

 

[drbill]

Another thought comes to my feeble brain now that the coffee is taking effect. I find women buddies tend to be more aware of the relationships involved in diving. I'm referring to both the buddy relationship itself and the ecological relationships. I can't remember the last time a female buddy just took off on me without communicating. Oops, yes I can... but it was years ago and she was a very poor buddy. I can think of a number of times when some macho male decided to barrel down deeper or wander off without informing me.

I don't think any of the ladies stayed close because they were co-dependent. They just understood what a buddy relationship should be. Then there was the one pick-up buddy, a beautiful Japanese woman, who held my hand the entire dive. Unfortunately she released it as soon as we were out of the water. Sniff!

 

[bubbles3d]

I am a very independent woman diver. In our OW class our instructor would not allow my husband and I to be buddys. Only after we actually got certified were we allowed to dive as a buddy team. That was the best thing she did for us. I agree and believe that both divers need to be competent individuals. I put my gear together myself all the time. Although my husband does help w/ lifting my gear on ocassion.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

I am a very independent woman diver. In our OW class our instructor would not allow my husband and I to be buddys. Only after we actually got certified were we allowed to dive as a buddy team. That was the best thing she did for us. I agree and believe that both divers need to be competent individuals. I put my gear together myself all the time. Although my husband does help w/ lifting my gear on ocassion.

That is my method also. I always separate the couples. They tend to worry and focus more on the significant other than themselves, and they should not do that while learning. I am glad that you appreciated that. It really works so much better. And you gain your own sense of self-confidence and ability, don't you? I find it is a good teaching tool. Then, when the couple gets back to buddying each other, they are really on a buddy basis and self-sufficient.

My big problem in this thread is the women who say that they trust their SO to keep them safe. Maybe it is just a turn of speech for them but it says to me that they let someone else be responsible for their safety. At the end of the day, you must be responsible for yourself, not another diver. I don't care if you sweet-talk your SO into doing the dishes, your gear, And the laundry----as long as you are capable and can do it yourself. You should never let someone else carry your safety and knowledge burden. There are admittedly some women out there who do. Most don't. Thank God.

 

[Rhone Man]

there where 2 woman ice divers in this years class. And both did 2 dives in wet suits as a buddy team.

Ice diving in wet suits.... that's hard core.