Inappropriate customer

[lowwall]

There has been some really bad advice dispensed here. Let's start with the things that someone in the OP's situation should not do:

- nothing (i.e., put up with it)
- threaten the customer
- physically assault the customer
- attempt to publicly humiliate the customer
- immediately complain to the certifying agency

With that out of the way, here's the ideal way to handle it:

First. Politely (and privately), but firmly, tell the customer to stop touching you inappropriately.

After this it can go one of two ways:

If he does stop, then great. If he does not stop, then go to the instructor immediately, i.e., during the class, and explain privately what has happened. State that you will not work within touching distance of that customer. I would hope that the instructor responds appropriately. If not, then I would suggest giving the instructor one more chance by stating that you will leave the water if this isn't dealt with in an acceptable manner. Follow through if you have to.

No matter how it turns out, after the class report the incident to the instructor and shop (if a shop is involved) via e-mail. You can do it verbally as well, but you really want to have a contemporaneous written account to protect yourself. The e-mail should calmly describe in detail what happened, including your response and the instructor's response if applicable. It should also ask for the instructor's/shop's policy if this were to happen again.

I suspect the shop will take this seriously and respond appropriately. If so, you are done. I would only escalate further if the shop blows you off completely or retaliates somehow. How to escalate depends on the specifics of the situation so I'm not going to go into this any further.

OK, that's the ideal. But that's not what happened. It is understandable that you froze up. But you shouldn't continue to be silent. Please let the shop know as soon as possible. Again put it in writing even if you let them know verbally. If you really can't bring yourself to e-mail the shop, then at least write the e-mail and send it to yourself so you have that record.

As I continue to read through the thread, I found that you did report it and they did take you seriously. Excellent.

Yes thank you. I think in general being so new I didn't know how to react especially to a paying customer. The shop and instructor were sympathetic, and yes there are other women I was able to ask advice with.

The future will be a stern moving of the hand and a verbal correction (if it feels safe).

Finally I should note that some assaults can be so egregious that the only appropriate response is to call the police.

 

[tursiops]

Pay more attention to whom I'm replying to.

If you want to have a private conversation with someone, go to Personal Mgs.
If you simply quote someone and reply, that is an open message, on an open forum.
You don't get to decide who responds to you. I'm responding to you right now, but anyone on SB can enter the discussion at this point.

 

[Scuba-74]

If you want to have a private conversation with someone, go to Personal Mgs.
If you simply quote someone and reply, that is an open message, on an open forum.
You don't get to decide who responds to you. I'm responding to you right now, but anyone on SB can enter the discussion at this point.

I'm pretty sure you mixed up my replies. There was one person mentioning "seniority gradient" and yet another person mentioning "degree of inappropriateness", which you combined in the same sentence after making a false statement that "nor did he say that". Just pay more attention, no one is disputing your right to respond on the internet.

 

[mcohen1021]

You want a formal process set up for reviewing the actions of a customer who is taking scuba lessons?

Do we really expect a certification agency to investigate a complaint by one of their professionals about a customer? Are you suggesting background checks be performed on all customers before they can take scuba lessons? And this is repeated every other year if they seek more training?

I didn't want to process for water skiing in the first place, but we have to comply by it because that's what the bleeping governing body did to it

 

[Waterwulf]

I would absolutely NOT confront him about it in private!!!!! You will open yourself up to a he said/she said scenario. You could also open yourself up to threats or actual physical danger. However with witnesses, he is restrained as to what he can do or say. Yes, it might be embarrassing to him but he's the one violating your space.

I didn't catch what country it happened in but that can be a major factor. Some cultures are touchy feely and see nothing wrong with it. Many countries don't give you as many rights as a victim as in America.

In any case, unwanted touching of a sexual nature is a crime and should be taken seriously. It is a violation of personal space and can be legally defended against with physical intervention (That's legaleese for breaking bones) and prosecuted. That's because it's considered a prelude to badder things.

I would suggest saying something "I don't like to be touched by strangers" and smile politely. That's at the second touch. The third touch gets a hand smacked away. The key is the proper escalation of deterrence. Please don't do that, then a hand smacked away and finally the proper application of an appropriate level of physical intervention. (Remember. Broken bones!) That's all legal in most States in America.

 

[NothingClever]

The only advice I’m going to give is to all the men posting in this thread.

We should probably refrain from thinking we have the precise or ultimate answer and leave a little more room in the conversation for women to help out each other.

Also, bickering with each other is neither helpful to @kastuk nor to women who may be visiting ScubaBoard wondering how they might need to be prepared while in relatively close quarters in their bathing suits with male strangers.

I don't think it's going to hurt us (men) to listen more than we type in a sub-forum titled "Women's Perspectives".

 

[Ez E]

Bad situation all around. One lesson I live by is I never touch other women(really even men for that matter). I would have a hard time being an instructor because because I dont feel comfortable putting my hands on people.

Ive had men get handsy with my wife and I put that down very fast without getting physical. Shoot, my wife was the one that kissed me first when we were just teens!

Not sure this helps you but I just dont understand how some people think its ok to touch all over others. Such a weird phenomenon for someone like me.

 

[johndiver999]

Bad situation all around. One lesson I live by is I never touch other women(really even men for that matter). I would have a hard time being an instructor because because I dont feel comfortable putting my hands on people.

Ive had men get handsy with my wife and I put that down very fast without getting physical. Shoot, my wife was the one that kissed me first when we were just teens!

Not sure this helps you but I just dont understand how some people think its ok to touch all over others. Such a weird phenomenon for someone like me.

And for me, somewhat the opposite. I have a reduced sense of personal space and even friends will tell me I am too close or "getting in their way" - on a boat or someplace where things tend to be crowded.

Recently, had a work out partner throw a hissy fit when (as I was bent over spotting him on the bench press) a drop of sweat came off my nose and landed in his face during the lift. All I could do was laugh (and apologize). I known I wouldn't like that either, but it has happened to me way too many times to count.

I always wondered if kids who had a lot of exposure to contact sports when really young like football or especially wrestling, have a little less sensitivity to (necessary) bodily contact and even having somebody else's gross sweat on them. In gymnastics, hands are all over your body for safety; in that situation the contact should be reassuring rather than upsetting.

I imagine there is a vast spectrum of personal boundaries and modesty between different individuals. Not that anyone should be prevented from maintaining their personal preferences and space, but for me, I have no problem physically helping people with scuba gear etc.

I think part of the OP's initial predicament is simply failing to actively defend her personal space - something EVERYONE has a right to do.

 

[kastuk]

Would it make any difference if he wasn't much older? Would your reaction be any different if he was younger? Would it make his actions more appropriate/acceptable?

I hope the answer to all these is "no", which makes me wonder why you're highlighting his age, repeatedly.

Highlighted his age originally because there is a power dynamic inherent in very large age gap situations. A younger person harassing is not "more appropriate" but an older person harassing *additionally* engages the power older people often have over younger people. Then you have an age gap power dynamic in addition to the gender power dynamic.

Highlighted the second time because someone said "older is subjective" and I clarified because older is subjective and I meant "much older than me" - which you would have read but decided to take it out of context anyhow. But you just seem intent on arguing a moot point to... I don't know, is it to derail? No idea what your purposes are with this but it isn't helpful or respectful. Picking apart small use of language when the topic is much more serious and broad is weird

 

[kastuk]

And for me, somewhat the opposite. I have a reduced sense of personal space and even friends will tell me I am too close or "getting in their way" - on a boat or someplace where things tend to be crowded.

Recently, had a work out partner throw a hissy fit when (as I was bent over spotting him on the bench press) a drop of sweat came off my nose and landed in his face during the lift. All I could do was laugh (and apologize). I known I wouldn't like that either, but it has happened to me way too many times to count.

I always wondered if kids who had a lot of exposure to contact sports when really young like football or especially wrestling, have a little less sensitivity to (necessary) bodily contact and even having somebody else's gross sweat on them. In gymnastics, hands are all over your body for safety; in that situation the contact should be reassuring rather than upsetting.

I imagine there is a vast spectrum of personal boundaries and modesty between different individuals. Not that anyone should be prevented from maintaining their personal preferences and space, but for me, I have no problem physically helping people with scuba gear etc.

I think part of the OP's initial predicament is simply failing to actively defend her personal space - something EVERYONE has a right to do.

No, it isn't my fault for not defending my space when this man intentionally touched me in areas he knew were private areas. The fault is on this man for sexual harassment - my reaction to it is not an uncommon one, because sexual harassment is a deeper violation than simply touching someone or being in their space.

To the men on this thread generally - I've had some good advice but there is also some bad advice here. Ultimately the amount of women that are violently sexually harassed is *a lot*. It's a common topic of conversation amongst my friends. Past experiences with sexual violence influence how someone may react due to trauma. Past experiences with enforcement of laws and procedures against sexual harassment, or experiences of men downplaying behavior (1 - usually legal systems don't do anything and 2 - many men downplay or make excuses, question, or doubt) influences how you may act.

I think I am done responding in this thread. To all of those who gave good advice and words of encouragement thanks. For those who derailed or shifted blame please read up on sexual assault statistics and survivor stories