Which PADI AOW specialties

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Understood and agreed. But, that doesn't mean AOW can't be done in a way that "works" for the people who ARE going to stay also. By which, I mean, treat as if you are assuming the student is going to go on to complete the specialties involved. Thus, offering those specialties (Nav, Deep, etc.) for a lower cost and with one less dive, because the first dive has already been completed.

That would also benefit the dabblers and the serious alike, by giving both a relatively quick path to being able to do those dives that require "Advanced", while not penalizing the serious students for wanting to get that AOW card quickly and then still move on to more training.

Stuart,

All good points. However, I don't teach independently, and all the shops I've seen have just set prices. While I have not done it yet, one of the things I want to check with PADI about is, in the case where students get credit for one of their dives from AOW, but they would like a 4th training dive (as they did pay for it), is it against standards, or is it opening up an instructor to liability, to do an optional dive where some additional skills may be taught? Whatever is done in this additional dive has no impact on the certification (as this is clearly a violation of standards), but rather, something that the student/customer would like to do.

That may be another way of addressing the issue (I know that was a run on sentence, but hopefully my message was clear).

The way you say you're doing it penalizes the serious students by saying that, either, they can do the necessary full specialties and wait to get their Advanced card until they've done them all, thus delaying their ability to go on the "Advanced" dives (while the dabblers are off doing those same dives). OR, they can pay extra to do AOW now but then still pay the same amount to do the full specialties later.

Hmm, punishing students is not my intent. In general, the AOW I like to offer is, start with PPB. As I've said prior, I have a strict interpretation of the performance requirements (that I think I can defend to PADI is there ever was a complaint, but there isn't). I just keep working with my students until they get over that hump, so that the other adventure dives go smoothly. Next comes navigation, which we all know is required. I like night next, as here in Seattle, night diving is quite popular. It involves navigation, and it gets people over their phobia of "what is lurking in the dark." Deep is also required. Now I teach my OW students to calculate their SAC rates and I encourage students to come into the program with that information. I work with the student to determine what gas volume they will consume during the deep dive. I have a dive profile for the dive site/path that we take, and we talk about differences. I think this is something that has real value. I'd like to do self-reliant, but that requires 100 dives, and honestly, I don't expect to ever have an AOW student that many dives. So the 5th is up to them. DSMB is what I'm leaning towards. I do insist on something that develops skills. Maybe digital photographer. I won't teach naturalist, because I don't have the academic background. I think that is better as a separate specialty. Make sense? I'm not a total jerk (just a partial one).

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

"Could you hear my palm hitting my forehead? It was pretty loud.

Oh, and I failed to answer your question. No I couldn't. But would you try again? Repeatedly? Maybe using a brick or bat?

 

[scubadada]

I did my AOW in Grand Cayman back in 2004, consisting of deep, nav, dpv, wreck, and ppb. On that visit or the next visit, I finished deep, dpv, and ppb specialties by completing them with 3, 1, and 1 more dive. I was given a proportional discount on the 3 specialty courses as I had previously done 3 of the dives in my AOW. This seemed like a fair way of doing it.

 

[Kevo88]

Stuart,

All good points. However, I don't teach independently, and all the shops I've seen have just set prices. While I have not done it yet, one of the things I want to check with PADI about is, in the case where students get credit for one of their dives from AOW, but they would like a 4th training dive (as they did pay for it), is it against standards, or is it opening up an instructor to liability, to do an optional dive where some additional skills may be taught? Whatever is done in this additional dive has no impact on the certification (as this is clearly a violation of standards), but rather, something that the student/customer would like to do.

That may be another way of addressing the issue (I know that was a run on sentence, but hopefully my message was clear).

I'm surprised that is the case with the shops you've seen. The place I'm doing my AOW gives credit for the dives and a discount on the specialty classes if you've already done the first dive in the AOW course. It's actually the main reason I'm doing the sampler platter and choosing this shop.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I'm surprised that is the case with the shops you've seen. The place I'm doing my AOW gives credit for the dives and a discount on the specialty classes if you've already done the first dive in the AOW course. It's actually the main reason I'm doing the sampler platter and choosing this shop.

You know, if a student negotiates with various shops for price/credit, I am not privy to that information. One shop that went out of business recently (for other reasons) ran package deals which made a lot of sense and value for the customers. There have been a few shops going out of business in my area (sadly). I cannot state why this happened in all cases. I do think that providing value and that customer feels that they are getting value is very important.

 

[Kevo88]

You know, if a student negotiates with various shops for price/credit, I am not privy to that information. One shop that went out of business recently (for other reasons) ran package deals which made a lot of sense and value for the customers. There have been a few shops going out of business in my area (sadly). I cannot state why this happened in all cases. I do think that providing value and that customer feels that they are getting value is very important.

Hopefully that trend starts to turn the other way as shops adapt to a newer style of doing business.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Hopefully that trend starts to turn the other way as shops adapt to a newer style of doing business.

I think we can all agree there are many changes required to make the scuba industry healthier. I don't think there is a simple solution, but a number of items that can nudge the health of the industry in the right direction.

 

[stuartv]

Hmm, punishing students is not my intent. In general, the AOW I like to offer is, start with PPB. As I've said prior, I have a strict interpretation of the performance requirements (that I think I can defend to PADI is there ever was a complaint, but there isn't). I just keep working with my students until they get over that hump, so that the other adventure dives go smoothly. Next comes navigation, which we all know is required. I like night next, as here in Seattle, night diving is quite popular. It involves navigation, and it gets people over their phobia of "what is lurking in the dark." Deep is also required. Now I teach my OW students to calculate their SAC rates and I encourage students to come into the program with that information. I work with the student to determine what gas volume they will consume during the deep dive. I have a dive profile for the dive site/path that we take, and we talk about differences. I think this is something that has real value. I'd like to do self-reliant, but that requires 100 dives, and honestly, I don't expect to ever have an AOW student that many dives. So the 5th is up to them. DSMB is what I'm leaning towards. I do insist on something that develops skills. Maybe digital photographer. I won't teach naturalist, because I don't have the academic background. I think that is better as a separate specialty. Make sense? I'm not a total jerk (just a partial one).

It really sounds like you're trying to teach people full specialties (or at least, the full PPB specialty) in a course that is only intended to give them the first dive of each course. I'll certainly give you props for trying to make sure the students get their money's worth in AOW!

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

It really sounds like you're trying to teach people full specialties (or at least, the full PPB specialty) in a course that is only intended to give them the first dive of each course. I'll certainly give you props for trying to make sure the students get their money's worth in AOW!

Moved to PM

 

[tursiops]

Oh, and I failed to answer your question. No I couldn't. But would you try again? Repeatedly? Maybe using a brick or bat?

I'm not a total jerk (just a partial one).

You said it better than I could.