PADI Rescue Diver vs SSI Stress and Rescue

[scubadada]

Hi @Jim Lapenta

I would argue that a newly branded diver does not have the bandwidth to execute Rescue Diver if taught properly.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Hi @Jim Lapenta

I would argue that a newly branded diver does not have the bandwidth to execute Rescue Diver if taught properly.

Those I taught myself and as part of a team had no issue with it. Of course those classes were two days of classroom, two days of pool, and two days of checkouts.
Give them time to absorb the material. If they have had proper OW training (not the BS one or two weekend classes), they should not have a problem.
They are being taught a recreational rescue class. Not Public Safety Diver Training.
First aid and CPR used to be two-day classes. Some are now less than half and teenagers take them and do well.

 

[Pulmcc]

Hi @Pulmcc

Don't you and your sons want to become competent independent divers, not dependent on a guide?

I took AOW at 85 dives and Rescue at 120 dives, after quite a few non-training dives, many independent.

Call me chicken, but I am perfectly happy relying on a guide to show me around. My boys are 16 and 19 so the only time we get to go diving is probably twice a year for a week during their summer and winter breaks from school. That doesn't allow for that many total dives in a year and also results in several months between dives.

Any regrets on doing holding off on doing AOW until 85 dives in and Rescue until 120 dives? Once we do our 4 deep dives in May, we will have SSI AOW certification though we would hardly be considered experienced divers at that point.

 

[Pulmcc]

It really depends on the instructor.

The main thing to consider is that a recreational rescue class should spend at least as much, if not more, time on PREVENTING accidents.

A recreational rescue class will also NOT prepare you to do much in water unless you practice the skills regularly. There are thousands of "Rescue Divers" who haven't practiced one single thing since the class. But they puff their chest out and say "I'm a Rescue Diver" in an effort to impress those who don't know any better. I've met a few of them. I wouldn't get in a wading pool with them.

Some of the in-water stuff you will do in the class is not very realistic in an actual emergency.

The missing diver scenario - recreational rescue divers will only be used in the water as a last resort and more than likely as snorkelers on the surface. If that.

You will not be prepared to do a proper search, and frankly, many professionals (DMs and Instructors) are not qualified to do it.

Actual Public Safety Divers will be called in, because the truth is, more often than not, a missing diver is going to be found on the surface or RECOVERED on the bottom. It's not a rescue scenario, it's a body recovery.

Rescue Tow- Trying to give rescue breaths to a stricken diver on the surface in the water, has maybe .01% chance of even delivering an effective breath by a recreational rescue diver. Once the adrenalin kicks in and you have people possibly shouting, screaming, and crying what will happen is:

1. You'll cut the airway off trying to get high enough to get a breath in,
2. Turn the head so airway is cut off,
3. Push the victims head underwater allowing more water into their mouth/nose,
4. Ensure brain damage/death because you delayed getting them to a hard surface where compressions can be done, O2 applied, and an AED used.

In reality, the best thing is to get them to a hard surface, boat, or shore as fast as possible rather than jerking around trying to give them breaths. Unless you have practiced this enough to 100% guarantee you can be effective. Slightest doubt? Don't waste the time.

Tired Diver Tow? Not a problem. But be prepared in case they go into full blown panic. If that happens you make sure their weights are gone and BC inflated. Then push them off and wait until they tire themselves out and resume the tow.

I always taught my students that Rescue should be the FIRST class you take after open water. Any open-water diver can be trained to recognize stress, problems with equipment, poor dive planning and preparation, and see that conditions are not suitable. The YMCA and later SEI required an OW cert and 10 dives to take the SLAM/DRAM (SEI) Rescue class which was one of the first recreational Rescue classes.
Why? Because of the things I just said. There is no need to make divers wait to make them safer.

UW Nav is a great class! I wrote my own that exceeds the standards of any organization. But UW Nav practice is NOT necessary for a recreational rescue diver. It is for PSD Divers who would be doing the actual navigating underwater. The recreational guy will be on the surface looking for bubbles.

Agency doesn't matter. Find an instructor that focuses on preventing accidents.

That's kind of how I looked at it when I registered us for the rescue diving course. I don't expect to be able to rescue anyone on my own but I would like to at least be able to recognize when someone might be having issues before they get to that point. Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you think that it's still a good idea to proceed even at our novice level?

 

[TMHeimer]

Yes, all of what Jim said. Particularly about reviewing & practicing. If you're in a situation where practicing stuff with a buddy is not practical, at least review the manual/e learning. Not the best way but it can't hurt. Same thing with EFR/CPR. I've seen these people take it every 2 years and say they're "current" (perhaps to satisfy a job requirement). If they don't review this stuff fairly regularly they are IMO not "current". I agree with Jim as well in Rescue being the first course you take after OW. Perhaps that is why PADI (I believe) eliminated the 20 dive requirement many years ago, and the requirement of AOW cert.

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

That's kind of how I looked at it when I registered us for the rescue diving course. I don't expect to be able to rescue anyone on my own but I would like to at least be able to recognize when someone might be having issues before they get to that point. Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you think that it's still a good idea to proceed even at our novice level?

A rescue course is always a good idea and everybody should do it - it ties together everything you learned so far and it's lots of fun. The only caveat is that you need to shift your focus from yourself to other divers around you to get the most out of the course. So your regular diving should be somewhat routine, to give you enough capacity to focus on others.

Otherwise go for it And don't forget there is quarry diving, depending on your location it might be a fun way to get few dives in over a weekend.

 

[Wants2divemore]

Perhaps that is why PADI (I believe) eliminated the 20 dive requirement many years ago, and the requirement of AOW cert.

According to the PADI website, "Adventure Diver/Junior Adventure Diver (or qualifying certification) with completed Underwater Navigation Dive" is a Rescue Diver prerequisite. Adventure Diver consists of 3 of the different specialty dives; Advanced Open Water requires 5.

 

[Belzelbub]

I think Rescue is one of the best courses a diver can take and I don't think you need to wait past what you've already done.

I agree in part. Rescue can be one of the best courses, but...

It really depends on the instructor.

This. The content of the Rescue course is valuable, but you'll only get the most out of it if your instructor really puts in the effort.

I feel I had a good instructor for React Right and Stress and Rescue. He (They actually) took some time to put together some scenarios. During the dive portion, they started it off by informing us we were on the clock until told otherwise. At portions we knew that we were going to be doing some sort of rescue, but never quite sure what it was. Could be a lost fin, could be a panicking diver, could have been anything. Even through in a scenario when we were on a surface interval.

By the end of the day, we were all tired, but felt it was money well spent.

Don't you and your sons want to become competent independent divers, not dependent on a guide?

I took AOW at 85 dives and Rescue at 120 dives, after quite a few non-training dives, many independent.

Yeah good point. I waited a bit longer, AOW after 170 dives, Rescue after 260. Absolutely no point in rushing into training immediately after certification. Doing some dives to allow what you learned initially to start to become second nature will make the next courses easier and better. You can then be more selective in what you actually want to learn/improve.

 

[Pulmcc]

Thanks everyone. I think I will just "enjoy" the diving in Cozumel but complete the 4 required deep dives to get our Deep Diving Certification which will complete our SSI Advanced Open Water requirements. Obviously, we still need a lot more dives for that to truly mean anything but I think the coursework we have done so far will only help us become better divers.

 

[scubadada]

Hi @Pulmcc

...I took AOW at 85 dives and Rescue at 120 dives, after quite a few non-training dives, many independent.

...Any regrets on doing holding off on doing AOW until 85 dives in and Rescue until 120 dives? Once we do our 4 deep dives in May, we will have SSI AOW certification though we would hardly be considered experienced divers at that point.

No regrets regarding the timing of the training. My son and I enjoyed building up the experience and skills. I did not "need" AOW until shortly after taking it. I went on my first trip to Key Largo and dived the Spiegel Grove and the Duane. I could have used recent deep dives, but it was simpler showing AOW. I think I got more out of Rescue going into it as a more skilled diver.

The only training I did after Rescue was SDI Solo, 9 years later. I mainly did it to expand the operators who would allow me to solo dive.