What women want?

[Cacia]

Self-defense Tips- maybe not a class, but suggestions like TAKE a class, or how to project the "I am not a victim" image.

majorly useful! ...then raise your baby girls to know *the walk*. Integrate it into their upbringing so they can whip it out when they need it. I bet trucker girl uses it in Fontanna at the truck stops.....

Also, many women need to be reminded not to do whatever men say and that they don't usually know where they are.

Like in Leenanne's thread where she descibes a new diver sort of being "man-handled"...that has happened to me too.

Mania, this "sort of" goes back to my point about girl's schools and even Lynne's "boot camp with alpha men"......both situations make you all assertive and capable. But for some women, leading more ordinary lives, we need advice at times on how to stand our own in mixed sports, where the men always seem to think they are running the show.

....I personally let them run what I think they are good at, which frees me up a bit. They just LOVE finding the bouy with the GPS...so I have been too lazy about learning that.

About the conditioner routine before the hood...I often get comments, mostly from women, sort of to the effect that if they had to give up the prissy routines, then so should I. I don't really care, it saves my hair, saves me time, I do note though that women are more hostile about this sort of stuff than men, which is curious.

I can work it out one to one, but groups of women really frighten me, which is why I would maybe be interested in the conference but realistically would probably never go. If there are no men around, women usually don't even go through the motions of being nice...that is my experience. MOST, not all.

except my nice friends in here. ....but I still will only PM about botox and diving masks.

 

[scratchmyback]

When I took my OW course a year ago (I started to say 'learned to dive' but I am always learning, so strike that) I was constantly being given misinformation by the guys in my dive club. Now I can see it was incorrect or conflicting information, but at the time I didn't have a clue.

I'm not saying this is specifically a guy trait, but they like to be helpful and offer advice when none is solicited. You all know the type. They'll observe you doing something a little different than they might - and instead of saying 'if you're having a bit of trouble with that (or not), would you like me to show you a differerent way?' they'll say things like 'that'll get ya killed'. I don't find that tactic especially illuminating or helpful.

Now I'm not talking about changing the guys' behaviour here, I'm just thinking that women need to understand it's ok to challenge information being given to them regarding diving, especially when new to the sport, if it doesn't make sense or if they don't understand it. I don't have a problem asking questions where diving is concerned but some women might feel intimidated.

 

[scratchmyback]

....I personally let them run what I think they are good at, which frees me up a bit. They just LOVE finding the bouy with the GPS...so I have been too lazy about learning that.

Agree totally with this. I dive with a bunch of men who all bring tool kits along. They chomp at the bit to be first in line to save the dive with an o-ring here, or a tie-wrap there. I don't want to deny them this pleasure It's not about being too lazy to do it myself, or to learn - it's about the give-and-take that occurs in social situations with men and women. Diving is no differerent.

 

[Teamcasa]

Ladies, I know this is your forum but I’d like to toss in an observation.
I build houses for the poor in Mexico and lead large groups who have never built anything before.
The biggest problem I have with taking women out of their paradigm by teaching them how to use Skilsaws, nailguns and other power tools is, they release control as soon as a man shows up and says something like, ”Here honey, let me show you how to do that..”. Then the knucklehead interloper male just finishes what I had assigned to the female. I warn the women about this behavior but most of the women still give up the tool and let the man do it for them. Some of the stronger willed women tell the guy to buzz off and end up having fun using the tools!

I see this in diving all the time. I even do it myself but its usually for my lovely bride. I’ll schlep her tanks and gear for her, help her in and out of her gear and so on. She is getting better about telling me not to help, but its is ingrained in my DNA. Bottom line is women have to stand up and tell us men to buzz off when they need to, we men will not stop (wanting to help) until told to do so directly.

Please pardon the interuption.

Dave

 

[erparamedic]

Ladies, I know this is your forum but I’d like to toss in an observation.
I build houses for the poor in Mexico and lead large groups who have never built anything before.
The biggest problem I have with taking women out of their paradigm by teaching them how to use Skilsaws, nailguns and other power tools is, they release control as soon as a man shows up and says something like, ”Here honey, let me show you how to do that..”. Then the knucklehead interloper male just finishes what I had assigned to the female. I warn the women about this behavior but most of the women still give up the tool and let the man do it for them. Some of the stronger willed women tell the guy to buzz off and end up having fun using the tools!

I see this in diving all the time. I even do it myself but its usually for my lovely bride. I’ll schlep her tanks and gear for her, help her in and out of her gear and so on. She is getting better about telling me not to help, but its is ingrained in my DNA. Bottom line is women have to stand up and tell us men to buzz off when they need to, we men will not stop (wanting to help) until told to do so directly.

Please pardon the interuption.

Dave

Very good post, TeamCasa! And you are quite right! There are alot of men that "just want to be of help". And are attempting to do so in a "gentlemanly manor". Then there are the other type that think that women "just can't do it" (whatever job/task) and try to "help".

I see this alot at work with lifting/moving/supporting patients, carrying heavy supplies, etc. The men that I work with know that I'm quite capable. The "new guys" at work quickly learn it. But then I have patient's families to deal with... where the men say, "Oh, you can't do that by yourself." That sometimes takes tactful explaining that I am a trained professional and do these things everyday. Then again... sometimes, I have to be "not so tactful" to get the point across. LOL

Yes... speaking up and asserting yourself is certainly helpful, and will, many times, "solve the problem". However, there are times that they guys just won't "buzz off" and letting them "help" will be the better of the evils.

Just my experience/observation.

That said... diving is no different.

I recently held the first annual "Ladies Get Wet Weekend" and there wasn't ALOT of ladies that came, but we did have a few (8 total... not bad for the 1st event and the fact that ladies are the minority). Several guys (from SB) dropped by to say hi to us , and a couple of them shared our camp area to gear up and such. (The didn't know it was our camp till we returned from a dive... no big deal... good entertainment! ) We had offers of "help" a couple times, but they seemed aware that we could do things on our own, and didn't force their "help" upon us. (If you're reading this... you know who you are, and thank you!)

The cool thing about "ladies only" events is that there's no dealing with men being "huffy" and wierd "man converstions".... like who got neutered and when. LOL There was no "my gear is better than yours", or Lord... there's a million things I could list. (Not saying that guy buddies are all like that... but, when you're the only girl there, the conversation topics are generally not of grand interest to you!)

The ladies event was actually quite laid back and fun, and the other girls are already asking when the next one will be! They even mentioned having another event THIS summer/fall. It was full of great dive buddies, no competition, nice girl chatter, and good food! I recommend that all girls try a ladies only event... even if it's just once.

 

[Cacia]

like who got neutered and when. LOL There was no "my gear is better than yours",

I looooove those conversations though
I want to have a women's dive so we can cross to Molakai and then brag. Exaggerate the weather, exaggerate the dives, bring it up when the men try and argue with us, selectively of course.

 

[Spratman]

That'd be an interesting conversation!

Not to worry, Mania! Unless specifically requested, I do not assist nor engage in voluntary assistance with male or female divers. Unless they end up as a buddy and have a hose wrapped around their neck prior to entry. (not a seven footer though)

They had seperate requirements in the military. Whatever I would assign a man to do, you had to assign either two women, or a man and a woman to do it. Physical fitness tests were different, etc.

If you all want a girls only conference out, go for it. Have a great time!

 

[trucker girl]

I can work it out one to one, but groups of women really frighten me, which is why I would maybe be interested in the conference but realistically would probably never go. If there are no men around, women usually don't even go through the motions of being nice...that is my experience. MOST, not all.
.

OMG... are you sure you're not my sock puppet? I read this and thought it was written by my alter ego!

My best friend and I are best friends because our husbands (being the sensitive guys they are...) left us together for a week at her house in Idaho while they went on a testosterone induced snowmobiling trip! We (the gals) were MORTIFIED- thought we'd have to spend a week being polite and enduring! Turned out that we really hit it off- and partially because of our fear of other women!

 

[TheRedHead]

majorly useful! ...then raise your baby girls to know *the walk*. Integrate it into their upbringing so they can whip it out when they need it. I bet trucker girl uses it in Fontanna at the truck stops.....

Just shoot the the bad guys...it is a lot easier.

 

[Cacia]

you could do it with your mouth...I mean wit.

For a conference, I had this thought doing my yoga....anything to do with the breath, women usually are very receptive to. So..get Tanya Streeter at the conference talking about Tantric Diving and I'd probably have to come.