What do you do when donating to a panicked diver who initiates a buoyant ascent?

[UofMI_Divegeek]

It may be ridiculous, but a panicked human being is not rationale and surface logic is simply inadequate to describe human behavior underwater under perceived life-threat stress.

So, prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

If you can find them, here are some references (not complete or definitive ... just stuff in my personal library) that might prove useful:

-----, STUDIES ON HUMAN PERFORMANCE IN THE SEA, Hawaii Sea Grant, Sept. 1975, 350 pages.

Adolfson, J. and Berhage, T. PERCEPTION AND PERFORMANCE UNDERWATER, John Wiley & Sons, New York, NY. 1974, 359 pages.

Athletic Institute, HUMAN PERFORMANCE AND SCUBA DIVING, Athletic Institute, Chicago, IL. 1970, 170 pages.

Bachrach, A. & Engstrom, G. STRESS AND PERFORMANCE IN DIVING, Best Publishing, San Pedro, CA. 1987, 183 pages.

Nevo,B. & Breitstein, S. PSYCHOLOGICAL AND BEHAVIORAL ASPECTS OF DIVING, Best, Flagstaff, AZ. 1999, 192 pages.

The last two references are considered by many to be the classic works.

 

[BoltSnap]

o the stressed, out of air human (the "dive parasite"), (their reasoning and perceptions are hindered / narrowed) .... the only functioning source of air they see (if they are not already escaping to the surface) is the one in your mouth. There may be no signal ... they may simply, without warning and quite unceremoniously rip the regulator out of your mouth. This could be life threatening.

Rat,

Then make the primary you have in your mouth on a longer hose, 120cm, and that's the one the parasite gets and you switch to the alternate on a short hose on a bungee. That's what is called "Primary Donate" configuration. I agree with you 100%, most of the time, the parasite will be jumping on the second stage in your mouth without warning or anything. The greater majority of divers never practice skills after their completing courses and will forget the details of how to do these skills few years down the road if they aren't practicing them on regular basis. Sharing air is one of them.

 

[BoltSnap]

Bachrach, A. & Engstrom, G. STRESS AND PERFORMANCE IN DIVING, Best Publishing, San Pedro, CA. 1987, 183 pages.

This one used to be a "must read" but I don't think that you can find it anymore.

 

[UofMI_Divegeek]

CMDR,
I am not a fan of longer hoses (except in cave diving mode for secondary) 'cause the long loop of the hose is a potential snag source. But, your sharing mode seems viable.

and, for me, as a limited vis, extreme current diver, one of my prime concerns is snagging.

I whole heatedly agree that many basic skills are lost post training.

Here is a rather interesting story about air sharing that was told to me:

Couple Communication

www-personal.umich.edu

The exact protocol, to me, is not that important, as long as buddy divers agree to their practiced emergency behavior.

and

protocols may be different in different environments.

 

[steinbil]

CMDR,
I am not a fan of longer hoses (except in cave diving mode for secondary) 'cause the long loop of the hose is a potential snag source.

and, for me, as an extreme current diver, one of my prime concerns is snagging.

I whole heatedly agree that many basic skills are lost post training.

Here is a rather interesting story about air sharing that was told to me:

Couple Communication

www-personal.umich.edu

The way most long hoses are routed/stowed, it's much more streamlined and less of a snag risk than a typical short hose...

 

[Belzelbub]

How ridiculous that is. All divers have another second stage. If someone takes mine, I grab another. It is just not that big of a deal and telling people otherwise only makes the whole thing much worse than it needs to be. I tell buddies that if they need air just take the reg from my mouth.

It will depend on the situation. If prepared for it, it should be a non-event. If not prepared, it can be frightening. Couple that with someone that has only learned secondary donate, a diver grabbing their primary unexpectedly can put the donor in an uncomfortable situation that may not be handled correctly.

During my class, my buddy had to donate to the ”victim”. He did that fine, but one time, got tangled up a bit with his secondary. A lot can happen in the moment. If the OOA diver is calm, that makes things a lot easier, when panicked, the rescuer needs to first make sure they don’t become a victim themselves.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

It may be ridiculous, but a panicked human being is not rationale and surface logic is simply inadequate to describe human behavior underwater under perceived life-threat stress.

So, prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

If you can find them, here are some references (not complete or definitive ... just stuff in my personal library) that might prove useful:

-----, STUDIES ON HUMAN PERFORMANCE IN THE SEA, Hawaii Sea Grant, Sept. !975, 350 pages.

Adolfson, J. and Berhage, T. PERCEPTION AND PERFORMANCE UNDERWATER, John Wiley & Sons, New York, NY. 1974, 359 pages.

Athletic Institute, HUMAN PERFORMANCE AND SCUBA DIVING, Athletic Institute, Chicago, IL. 1970, 170 pages.

Bachrach, A. & Engstrom, G. STRESS AND PERFORMANCE IN DIVING, Best Publishing, San Pedro, CA. 1987, 183 pages.

Nevo,B. & Breitstein, S. PSYCHOLOGICAL AND BEHAVIORAL ASPECTS OF DIVING, Best, Flagstaff, AZ. 1999, 1992 pages.

The last two references are considered by many to be the classic works.

Thanks! I'm always looking to add to my dive library. Just ordered the last two per your recommendation.

 

[Altamira]

After reading this thread, I am glad I did not elect to use a much longer primary donate hose because I can see major problems if a diver grabs a regulator on 6-7' hose and then rockets to the surface. Never having done it, I'm not certain I could control a diver that could get that far away from me in a matter of seconds. Based on a lot of past SB threads and posts, I use a primary donate with a 40" hose so I hopefully will not have to deal with a possibly panicked diver using my octo on a 29" hose, perhaps interfering with things I might want/need to do to resolve the problem. Although unconventional, I now put both regulators on rubber necklaces so I have immediate access to either regulator if needed. This thread has been a wealth of information.

 

[johndiver999]

Why put a primary regulator on a necklace?

 

[Bowcaps]

An instructor would punch the student in the stomach as hard as they could if they didn't completely empty every bit of gas from their lungs.

Yes that's very believable

Don’t get me wrong, this wasn’t ‘as hard as they could’ more like a jab to get the air flowing out, but it definitely got the point across.