When to donate air?

[happy-diver]

Thing is when you're back at the dock make sure you leave before the person you've donated to
in case they want you to donate petrol, or keep them company waiting three hrs for road service

Hey at least they won't be able to crash into your car

 

[DrWilliam]

This discussion has been great for helping me consider multiple scenarios.
To f/u on my original question, does any Recreational Training agency teach sharing air to LOA divers? I thought it was trained only as an EP to provide gas to a diver who is OOA.
But if so, how do they define LOA? ("low" being so relative).

My training was a LONG time ago, but I always thought the training was to share if a diver is OOA. This of course doesn't mean to refuse air if asked or to leave the person to their own predicament.
My plan is still if one of a buddy pair is LOA to begin ascending as a pair and remaining in contact distance, ready to donate. (Based on circumstances, I am of the general mindset that in most LOA situations a diver will have enough to make a safe ascent to safety stop depth (which is where I would prefer to donate anyway, if needed). I would modify this plan if a return to ascent line is a requirement for safety (ie, currents).

 

[Still Kicking]

But if so, how do they define LOA? ("low" being so relative).

I don't think anyone has an official definition.

I would say it is the point at which a diver barely has enough gas to make it to the surface on their own supply. Whether that includes enough to complete a safety stop (which is not mandatory), enough reserve for an OOA buddy, or enough to satisfy a boat minimum end pressure (if there is one) etc., is all up for debate.

All these issues should be factored into gas planning and discussed with buddies prior to the dive.

 

[johndiver999]

This discussion has been great for helping me consider multiple scenarios.
To f/u on my original question, does any Recreational Training agency teach sharing air to LOA divers? I thought it was trained only as an EP to provide gas to a diver who is OOA.
But if so, how do they define LOA? ("low" being so relative).

My training was a LONG time ago, but I always thought the training was to share if a diver is OOA. This of course doesn't mean to refuse air if asked or to leave the person to their own predicament.
My plan is still if one of a buddy pair is LOA to begin ascending as a pair and remaining in contact distance, ready to donate. (Based on circumstances, I am of the general mindset that in most LOA situations a diver will have enough to make a safe ascent to safety stop depth (which is where I would prefer to donate anyway, if needed). I would modify this plan if a return to ascent line is a requirement for safety (ie, currents).

Do you really think that a training agency is going to be able to define what to do - particularly with respect to OW divers? If anything, this discussion should be sufficient to demonstrate that there is a variety of opinions and most of the ones that make sense to me anyway, seem to emphasize that this is a somewhat subjective and situationally dependent decision.

After many hundreds of dives, someone should have enough experience to try to figure out how they will approach this situation, rather than try to rely on some definitive answer in a book.

A huge part of the decision is how comfortable you are in the situation, how well you think you can handle the situation and keep it from spiraling into a mess and how the LOA diver appears, as well as depth, current, air pressures, size of tanks, deco status etc. I can't imagine trying to write some kind of guideline that would objectively and succinctly cover all of that. In other words, who the heck cares what PADI says?

 

[scubadada]

I take other divers drift diving with me in Boynton Beach, FL relatively frequently. We discuss the plan ahead of time. I have the dive flag. If the divers with me run low on gas, they ascend on my flag and get picked up by the boat. I would not dream of sharing air with any of these divers to prolong their dive time. Perhaps paid guides may think of this differently, I don't think so, I believe they simply end the dive.

 

[johndiver999]

I take other divers drift diving with me in Boynton Beach, FL relatively frequently. We discuss the plan ahead of time. I have the dive flag. If the divers with me run low on gas, they ascend on my flag and get picked up by the boat. I would not dream of sharing air with any of these divers to prolong their dive time. Perhaps paid guides may think of this differently, I don't think so, I believe they simply end the dive.

That makes sense.

But I have shared air with a buddy for a few minutes on a dive and during the ascent, simply to save the cost of a nitrox fill. If one buddy has a big tank and a lot left over toward the end of the dive, we used to quite commonly share the lower tank on the way up. We always had enough in the "low" tank for a safe ascent, but it allowed me to transfill on the surface interval and add nitrox to the large ("high") tank that was only partially used. Every time I did this it saves me 10-$12 plus it is excellent practice should a real problem develop.

Everyone just needs to use common sense and think about what they are doing.

 

[boulderjohn]

Everyone just needs to use common sense and think about what they are doing.

Wait! Are you saying it permissible to break hard and fast rules in certain situations if you fully understand why those rules are there and why you think they can be broken under the circumstances?

That almost sounds as radical as when the Today Show played the scene from Into the Blue in which Jessica Alba swimS from stranded OOA diver to another, giving them the breath she had taken from a tank. When Matt Lauer asked her if it wasn't dangerous to hold your breath while diving, she calmly said it was OK because she was swimming along the bottom and not ascending. What a rage that statement made back then!

 

[AsherN]

you realize you're at 700 psi and are supposed to be on boat with 500 psi.

That sounds wild to me. I've never encountered a "must have at least xxx PSI back on the boat".
I do most of my dives in the 20-30m depth. It usually is 750PSI is low and ascend. You get on the boat with whatever air you have left.

 

[Learner Diver]

I watched many divers anxiously signaling divemasters when they were at maybe 40 feet and maybe 900 psi and an ascent had not yet been signaled by guide.

My thoughts on this type of scenario would be to look for another Divemaster.