What do you do when donating to a panicked diver who initiates a buoyant ascent?

[johndiver999]

It will depend on the situation. If prepared for it, it should be a non-event. If not prepared, it can be frightening. Couple that with someone that has only learned secondary donate, a diver grabbing their primary unexpectedly can put the donor in an uncomfortable situation that may not be handled correctly.

During my class, my buddy had to donate to the ”victim”. He did that fine, but one time, got tangled up a bit with his secondary. A lot can happen in the moment. If the OOA diver is calm, that makes things a lot easier, when panicked, the rescuer needs to first make sure they don’t become a victim themselves.

Of course it can be dangerous for someone who is not a decent diver, but "the geek" seems to be telling people to prepare for a life threatening event associated with someone taking a regulator. I do not agree with this line of thinking at all.

To reiterate, it would be very smart for a diver to PREPARE for loosing the regulator and develop an automatic, reflexive response to reach for it if it were snagged on something, or recover the secondary should the primary be unavailable FOR ANY REASON. This should not be considered life threatening. I don't care if the diver was trained for secondary donate, or not - should the reg be snatched it should be a non-event.

I think it is not much different than telling a diver to "prepare to die" should the power inflator on the BC fail at 100 feet. I would never teach someone that this is some kind of dramatic event. Of course is COULD kill you, but not such a big deal if you have thought it through, practiced and you have no other compounding issues.

 

[BoltSnap]

"the geek"

Hahahahahahahahahaha

 

[CT-Rich]

A panicked diver only needs to think they don’t have air, a ripped mouth piece breathing wet might be enough. On my last trip a newbie ended up sharing air with her instructor. Her tank valve was’t all the way open and at 60’ it shut down. I bet the BCD could still inflate. They could grab the elevator and head up. A neutral diver kicking hard is going to be a rocket ship eventually as his suit and BCD expand. He could also decide to dump lead in his panic.

I’m not a lawyer, but I have a vivid imagination. Once topside you are going to have to answer for the choices you make. If you yank your regulator out of his mouth and they drown or have an embolism, a lawyer in nice suit in a warm and dry court room is going to ask you how likely it was that you were going to die going faster than the recommended rate. You are also going to get to look at the family of your former buddy as they pull up the data from everyone’s dive computer’s ascent rates.

I am yet to see a hose get pulled hard enough to yank it out of a first stage.

On my last dive trip they asked if everyone had a buddy. I said “no” but I would be a good boy and stay with the group. Wasn’t a problem.

 

[Altamira]

Why put a primary regulator on a necklace?

@johndiver999. A couple of reasons. First, because I use both primary and octo during a dive to insure both work as advertised. I found when I did not use a necklace for both, it became a pain in the butt to clip off/stow the primary in a way that was easy to reach/access for me or a dive needing buddy. Also, with two shoulder replacements, my arm mobility is not ideal, and I want both regulators where I can easily reach them with either arm. I do not want to depend on sweeping my right arm to recapture a regulator that may have gotten away from me. Being old sometime requires doing normal things differently.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

All this stuff about avoiding the situation is good, but that is not the question. Something to consider- once the victim takes your regulator, you really, really do not want him cranking on the hose. He could tear the hose from your first stage. IF that were to happen the situation becomes very serious.
So for that reason, you don't want a tug of war, certainly don't plan on it. It is to your benefit to try to control the victim especially once they "got you by your hose".

If the diver grabs the reg and bolts, I would do my best to match his ascent speed, grab his harness, if they don't calm down, you are going for a ride. I would wrap my legs around their midsection in a scissor hold. This will lock you into a perpendicular position which allows you then to lean back a little, and extend legs and feet/fins and create as much drag as possible.

Then, if we are arising in a cloud of bubbles, you know the ascent rate is excessive and I would use one hand to hold the victim and the other to dump from my BC - I don't use a dry suit. I would concentrate on taking shallow breaths, so as to hopefully avoid a lung injury. If possible, I might also grab their BC inflator and try to dump on the ascent if it seems too fast and if you have access to it.

Once on the surface after a rapid ascent, you might want to snatch the reg and re-descend to 20 feet if you feel like nitrogen is an issue. Hopefully the victim won't die on the surface with a full BC.

I have actually done something very similar, ridding a diver up in a very buoyant situation. Doing the scissor hold keeps your body still and is not that strenuous.

No, he couldn’t “tear the hose from your first stage…” if you have your first stage properly threaded and tightened down. When single hose regulators first came out, one of the LDSs took a LP hose, cut it half in two, then tied it between two autos. Both autos pulling could not break that hose. Unless something has happened in the intervening 40 or so years, these hoses are too tough to be pulled off the first stage underwater.

SeaRat

 

[John C. Ratliff]

CMDR,
I am not a fan of longer hoses (except in cave diving mode for secondary) 'cause the long loop of the hose is a potential snag source. But, your sharing mode seems viable.

and, for me, as a limited vis, extreme current diver, one of my prime concerns is snagging.

I whole heatedly agree that many basic skills are lost post training.

Here is a rather interesting story about air sharing that was told to me:

Couple Communication

The exact protocol, to me, is not that important, as long as buddy divers agree to their practiced emergency behavior.

and

protocols may be different in different environments.

Usually, I don’t dive a long hose on my primary or octopus (yes, I still use that term). But I can say that if it is routed correctly, there is no loop to snag. I set up my U.S. Divers Company original Calypso regulator, with a second generation Calypso second stage on it. My primary hose goes straight down, then across my chest and around my back, where it hangs off my right shoulder. There is not “loop” at all. But I’d like to see the face of the DIR diver I would dive it with when he saw a 1962 regulator being used in this manner.

Now, if this “parasite” diver tried to get what was in my mouth, that diver would be surprised to see a double hose loop in my mouth. How would a “parasite” diver respond to a diver using a double hose regulator?

SeaRat

 

[Catito]

Nah my ex instructor mate, instructor not mate he's an amazing diver, a cross between a frog and a fish
little guy, I carried him across the threshold into reception at a resort we were diving at on my shoulder
and he still thanks me for ducking, well him and a student having spent a bit of time at eighteen metres
were going ballistic up a whoops not panic just accidentally up ballistically anyway it was only a shop BC

Stab slash hack, back to the boat off to the pub

What?

 

[johndiver999]

No, he couldn’t “tear the hose from your first stage…” if you have your first stage properly threaded and tightened down. When single hose regulators first came out, one of the LDSs took a LP hose, cut it half in two, then tied it between two autos. Both autos pulling could not break that hose. Unless something has happened in the intervening 40 or so years, these hoses are too tough to be pulled off the first stage underwater.

SeaRat

yeah I normally carry my scuba outfit by the low pressure hose. Just drag it down the dock, that is what the tank boot is for anyway.

 

[Adamastor]

What do you do?

Do you grab your buddy, and try to hold him/her back?
Try to grab the inflator to deflate the BC?
Empty your own BC to try to get negative to offset buddy's lift?
Try to pull your primary back and hope buddy makes it to the surface?
Follow your buddy in a quick ascent from depth and make sure to exhale?

You pull his upper dump valve and stop the ascent.
Then you hold his BCD, inflate both yours and his and control the ascent to 5m, not exceeding 15m/min.
At 5 m, you stop and check your deco, do the required stop, then ascend to the surface, not exceeding 6m/min.

Once the buddy has your secondary, he should calm down and you perform the above.
On the other hand, if the buddy panicks and is not cooperative, you are in no way obligated to die with him.

 

[rongoodman]

You pull his upper dump valve and stop the ascent.

You're assuming the presence of a pull dump on his BC, which is not necessarily the case.