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cerich:
It would be a set criteria based on experience and training of techs (and not just our training!),physical service area, repair and testing equipment, tools, stock levels of service kits and parts and be reviewed annually.

The reps would do the evauls.

You might want to take page from Toyota's book.

Whenever my car goes in for service I receive a survey directly from Toyota asking several questions relative to the service. THis is used as the basis for rating each dealership's service.

This type of survey should be a major component of the rating. This part of the survey would take sales commission that Dive Dennis questioned out of the picture.

For example, my LDS is one of your dealers. If a piece of equipment is being serviced and is not ready by the time the customer is ready to dive they get the store's comparable equipment to use until the repair/service is completed.

That makes a big difference to me as a customer. The service tech has years of experience and is very thorough when servicing equipment.

Also, it should be noted that as far as I know Oceanic still does not have a Northeast sales rep. How would the Northeast U.S.A. be covered is the survey is done via the sales rep?

I think you have a good idea that just needs some refinement.
 
Nobody answered my question back a few pages about what it takes to be a tech/repair guy in a dealer's shop. Is there any sort of testing or certification course that's required, or is it just, "this guy works here, he does it?"

I'm positive that if there were a comprehensive rigorous testing policy to get a license that was required for doing regulator service, the overall quality of service would increase and there would be far fewer complaints about LDS reg service. At least it wouldn't be such a crapshoot when bringing in a reg for service.
 
No, In the times I have let a shop perform service I always end up finishing their job on my bench. Quality control has no survey other than a return to the shop and who's going to report it? Missing parts, out of spec pressures and long delivery times make me bring in equipment only when a failure occurs which is infrequent. I would bet a big dealer like Divers Direct has the volume to support a quality person. Small shops, go buy a lottery ticket to see if it is going to be fixed correctly.
 
diver_pirate:
No, In the times I have let a shop perform service I always end up finishing their job on my bench. Quality control has no survey other than a return to the shop and who's going to report it? Missing parts, out of spec pressures and long delivery times make me bring in equipment only when a failure occurs which is infrequent. I would bet a big dealer like Divers Direct has the volume to support a quality person. Small shops, go buy a lottery ticket to see if it is going to be fixed correctly.

So to boil it down you feel the whole service aspect sucks so badly it's not worth trying to make it better....

That shows apathy that I haven't seen since I left Canada!:D
 
Yes, I think that having a ranking is a great idea.

Even with well set criteria’s, as long as there are humans involved, there will always be some judgment and room for interpretation. Therefore, no system will ever be perfect, but your idea is a good start.

You may not want (or need) to give or publish a negative mark to any of your dealers/ repair facilities. But you can have a scale such as: I) meets minimum standard, II) exceeds minimum standard, III) outstanding repair facility.

You can have an evaluation sheet (using the scale above) with several categories. The categories could be: customer satisfaction, proper tools, clean work place, good parts inventory, good documentation, and maybe records of training, etc. Each category could get its own evaluation.

The evaluation sheets/forms would evolve with time so they need a revision number and of course a date.

This is just one idea that I have seen to work in some situations.

There will always be some that will distrust any evaluation (or reviews), but I think the majority will use it as another tool to assist them in making there own judgment.
 
There is an other option

Send out a survayor on the shops (one for each brand please) and then test the work.
We have such a test in the Netherlands and it gives a good idea on the work that is done.It is not completle done well(they try to bring scubapro regs to a oceanic dealer)
but it's a beginning.
 
300bar diver:
There is an other option

Send out a survayor on the shops (one for each brand please) and then test the work.
We have such a test in the Netherlands and it gives a good idea on the work that is done.It is not completle done well(they try to bring scubapro regs to a oceanic dealer)
but it's a beginning.

I love the Nederlands but it's just too large over here to do same.

Who does this?

Best,

Chris
 
cerich:
My thought was when you have well set out criteria it becomes a very simple evaluation, the shop meets or does not. Not much room for anybody fudging the system. We publish the requirements and listing for the dealers and the public. The dealers would choose if they even want to be evaluated.

It's relatively easy to evaluate tools, parts, and work areas to standards, and even a techs experience and training history as you mentioned. The not proposed, more difficult, expensive - and more important to a customer seeking life support equipment service, is a tech's skills and quality of workmanship evaluation. I don't think the latter can be done by the rep. alone. You need customer feedback to cover a large or representative sample, and production inspection to cover details.

Disseminating information publicly is beneficial to consumers, it can also create competitive pressure on dealers to raise their standards.

Viewed as a consumer, making participation optional would significantly diminish its impact and usefulness. When some good shops are rated, others not, and the bad definitely not, the benefits of public ratings become greatly diminished to consumers, due to the imposed, severe limitations. Whether by design or a derivative peripheral, the optional participatory aspect would reasonably be interpreted by many as pandering to one of your business interests, that of not alienating dealers, over potential customer safety, and other issues. This is normal business practice for some businesses, (I'm not necessarily accusing you.) usually done in a discreet, underhanded, and obfuscating manner. Oftentimes, resource and expense prohibitions are used as cover, as it may be difficult to discern whether they are legitimate or not. At any rate, don't expect points for this negative aspect which has its associated costs. A lot of this would depend on the opting out clause and mfr knowledge of a deficient dealer. Somewhat of an aside, but I firmly believe the public should be entitled to be informed of deficient dealers and techs when it comes to equipment service safety issues, provided the mfr has knowledge. This is why many mfr's rather not get involved in this and know something they would rather not know. Have you ever heard of any dealer, or tech, who has been asked by a mfr., not necessarily yourself, to cease equip. service due to mfr knowledge of service inadequacy?

While opting out is not demonstrative of a shop meeting or failing standards and may or may not have much impact on their business, since most reg service is local. It's obvious no one who would receive a negative rating is going to be willing to be included in your ratings, or much less publicly post a sign proudly stating "We Do Not Meet Standards For Regulator Service". At the very least there will be a delay in improving dealer wide network standards. On the other hand, consumer confidence in those who do, and demand for it could start the process rolling.

A mandatory and substantive rating system, which includes failing, as opposed to a rather meaningless one consisting of good to better, will cause some dealers to defect. Considering how many, their representational quality and profitability vs. dealers attracted and gained is, well, your job to analyze.

Your idea is good, I just don't think the partial measures you propose are going to receive, or are due, the same public support a more comprehensive service standards and results evaluation system would. You’re only going to get credit for the true significance of the measures implemented. At least by the more knowledgeable discerning diver, notwithstanding there will always be some who dismiss anything, and some who will buy into anything. That’s just normal. I definitely believe some improvement is better than none, and it could start a trend. Much praise and credit would certainly be deserving of anyone who starts the process. Unfortunately, based on what you are presenting thus far, this would probably be greater in retrospect as seen from the future. Maybe today if you play your cards right.

It would be a step in the right direction to inform customers of the following:

Shops that have adequate and proper tools.

Maintain a proper service work area.

Maintain parts inventory to service not only popular regs, but a reasonable variety of models sold, and who has the ability to quickly acquire parts for other models of represented brand.

Turnaround time.

Service techs have a minimum defined level of experience and training to perform or oversee and verify apprentices work.

Quality of workmanship results.

Looking at this list makes me wonder if the standards are that low, lower, or non-existent. Yet, these are some of the places mfr’s refer customers to get their life support equipment serviced. The Good, the Bad, and the Dangerous. What the heck, they all make the mfr. money. Sorry, but I couldn’t resist. All the more important for someone to step up and improve things.

What surprises me is how many of you seem to expect that something "fishy" would transpire, or it would be done as a reward for sales....

You may well conduct business in an ethical beyond reproach manner, but, experience has taught many of us there are many who do not. It could be problematic and harmful for someone to make an assumption without some basis. There is an inherent conflict of interest in an organization's self evaluation, which is further compounded when financial interests are involved, that’s just a fact in most cases. Yet, it can be significantly overcome by consistently supporting claims by way of examples which validate. This will engender trust and credibility, focus on the desired, and dispell other motives.

Bottom line, while it could possibly raise the bar, from what I have read here there is too much distrust to have the program have any value.

Not specifically in reference to you, your company or your dealers, but regarding some relatively widespread industry practices in general, much of this distrust has been well earned and is well deserved. Much work by many has gone into perpetrating and perpetuating certain issues. There’s is no shortage of substantial demonstrations, example after example. See previous paragraph, it goes both ways.

cerich, I believe I’ve read some of your posts stating something to the effect of “What’s good for the customer is good for the vendor”, although this is a somewhat superficial statement, it also contains a rudimentary business principal. I would encourage you to take some steps towards service improvement. Your proposals have value in regards to the positives they represent within their limitations. I believe if properly done you can get credit where credit is due, and profits. Not for something else, not more, not less. Good luck.
 
Yes, although up here there aren't "choices," per se. The Oceanic dealer isn't the only shop to service Oceanic equipment, but he'd be the only one to get rated.

One way to run the game would be to actually require participating dealers to post the scoring sheet in an obvious place in the store. Customers could see that this store got a perfectly good B+ rating, but they could see that the highest marks were in "well stocked" and the lowest in "marginally competent technicians." The customer could then conclude for themselves whether getting their reg back fast was more important than getting their reg back working.

That was mean. Substitute "clean workspace" for "marginally competent technicians" and "from a tidy person" for "working."
 
yes
Post the results on your web site as well as at the shops. That way we can decide who to take our equipment to.
Changes in staff etc must be quickly recognised and the rating updated if necessary.
 

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