Am I spouting nonsense or is DGX being grumpy with me?

[Jim Lapenta]

We regularly register 31-33° on bottom here in fresh water of the St Lawrence River, to include frazzle ice forming on bottom. I dive a MTX myself for these conditions .

That water is moving though so it will tolerate lower temps. But you are correct, and I should been more clear and noted that where I trained and dived under the ice was in lakes and quarries with little to no current. In those places, the ice cap acts as insulation, and the water doesn't get colder than the 36-38 due to the depth and residual heat not being able to escape. Otherwise if it got lower than 32 top to bottom, we'd be frozen in a big ice cube!

 

[BillaVista]

I kinda with I had not made this puiblic - I was just taken aback. In any case - I've read the feedback, collected my thoughts, apologized, and tried again. Here is my latest attempt. I will post the reply.

Hi DGX,
I recently purchased a BPW setup from you guys with DGX SS backplate and harness, with OMS wing. I am so impressed with the quality and service that it has me looking hard at DGX for my next regulator purchase.

I am a PADI rescue diver and ACUC ice diver, first certified in 1983.

Most of my diving is in the Great Lakes and St Lawrence river – down to about 4*C is not uncommon. A lot of silty and mucky water too. I want a sealed diaphragm first stage with 5 LP ports and a swiveling turret.

For this reason – my initial thought was the DGX Custom - Dive Rite XT1/XT4 Single Tank Reg Package. But then, as I said, I was so impressed with your BP and harness I took a look at the DGX regulators. The excellent pricing and availability of manuals and parts kits are extremely tempting!

But first, I have a couple of questions if you don’t mind.

1. Would it be possible to purchase the DGX Custom - DGX Gears XTRA Single Tank Reg Package but substitute the DGX Gears D6 1st Stage for the XTRA 1st stage? If possible what would be the price?
2. I see that hose choice doesn’t affect the pricing. Would it be possible to choose the braided hoses for all EXCEPT the primary long hose which I would prefer in rubber?
3. Althopugh mostly a spring-fall diver, I still do an occasional ice dive (maybe once per year) and have found it possible with “non specialty ice diving” regs and proper precautions. Finally, although I understand neither the XTRA nor D6 are designed, rated, or marketed for under-ice diving, I was wondering if either a) You have ever heard from customers who have ice dived them and had good or poor experiences and b) If I were to try this (entirely at my own risk) – is there a feature on the XTRA second satges that would make them a better candidte – for example, the metal barrel?

Many thanks for your time, excellent service, and quality product,
Best wishes,
Bill

 

[lowwall]

I kinda with I had not made this puiblic - I was just taken aback. In any case - I've read the feedback, collected my thoughts, apologized, and tried again. Here is my latest attempt. I will post the reply...

Looks very reasonable. But understand that his insurance company, lawyer, or bitter experience may have warned him off from answering #3 with anything other than "the standard says".

 

[admikar]

I think you have nailed it. I shall send an apology to Mark immediately.

IMO,which is worth just as much as you have paid for it, you first email was fine, even if somewhat "nonsensical".
But your response really put you on defensive here. While response from DGX might have been less than diplomatic, they put out the effort to explain their reasoning, which is what you asked for in the first place.
Now for you latest inquiry, I'm not sure if you are really that unfamiliar with how modern commerce works, but you can just put items you want in the basket, without going for package deal and then ask to customize that out.

 

[happy-diver]

Who knows we may still have cool_hardware52 if he were not driven to distraction by nonsense

I don't think that you need to at all. Mark was a jerk and very impolite. He isn't doing you a selfless favor here, you are a customer with money in your hands ready to buy from HIM but wanted more information. I find your questions very reasonable and shows that you are a "smart" client. The BS from Mark about how things are made in "Asia" is a smartarse jerk uncouth thing to say.

I would have told him to go and f himself if he talks to me like he did to you. They should be a "professional" organization and not belittle their potential clients or shame them just because they "may" have asked a "stupid" question in their view (your questions weren't stupid at all).

Please come in, I hope the private jet we sent was to your satisfaction, there's a
suite with recreation waiting, in our best hotel, and I apologise the limousine is
red but the rest are with other customers like you, now what was your question


G'day brother boltSnap great news about the photo comp, can't choose family

 

[BillaVista]

Conclusion. Looks like Mark and I were either having an off day (happens to us all) or a simple miscommunication. Here is his latest excellent response for which I am very grateful!


Bill,

Thank you for your kind remarks. My thoughts... Both the XTRA and the D6 are considered "cold water" qualified down to 4C, but that is really cold and conventional wisdom is the diaphragm regulator first stages are prefered in that range... that suggests either the Dive Rite XT or the DGX Gears D6 would be preferred. However, we have plenty of customers who have had good experience with the XTRA in that temp range and it performs well too. Both the DGX Gears regulators have similar intermediate pressure (IP) operating ranges and the stages should be interchangeable, although we haven't tested that configuration in very cold water and therefore can't make a recommendation but I personally would have no concerns regarding a D6 1st stage with a XTRA 2nd stage. The price to put the XTRA 2nd stage on the D6 1st stage would be the difference the price of the 2nd stages... or about an additional $50 per second stage total of $100. You can have any hose configuration you wish.

We have an easy way to make special requests right on your order so they will follow your order all the way through our system. Order the D6 package with flex hoses and during the checkout process, right above the "Place Order" button a dialog box for Special Instructions appears. In this box, please write "Per Mark, please change the long hose to rubber and please change the 2nd stages to the XTRA seconds (retaining the D6 first) for an additional $100."

As for how I feel about any of the regs in actual under ice conditions: I'm aware of a few customers who have had both under ice and I'm not aware of any issues related to icing. Frankly, there is nothing about either regulator that would cause me to lean toward either one of them under ice, other than the conventional wisdom that enviro sealed diaphragm firsts are preferred for ice diving. There is also more metal on the D6 first stage to act as a heat sink; as for the second stages I think either the D6 or the XTRA is likely to perform about the same. The reality is that any regulator will freeze if it flows enough gas under heavy breathing with the possible exception of the Poseidon.


I hope this helps


--
Safe Diving,
Mark

 

[MidOH]

Definitely get a rubber long hose.

 

[eightytwenty]

How very interesting.

I would have thought that where he said my questions contained nonsense, heavily implied asking where something is made is stupid (why then do so many of thie own advertising proudly proclaim "Made in the USA"?), and then failed to actually answer my questions, that it was not I being combative or overly sensitive.

But the consensus seems clear. I remain puzzled. Oh well.

Jim Lapenta - thanks very much for sharing your thoughts and opinions - much appreciated.

The DGX XTRA regulators are produced by Well Marine Diver, or W.M.D. out of Taiwan. Supposedly they're the FS-817 DIN first stage and FR-02 second stages, built in a special color and aluminum DIN handwheel. Not sure if there are any "improved" performance metrics between the DGX and W.M.D. products. I own and use both. Both are great regulators for recreational singles stuff, but I need to dive them a little more before I determine whether they're suitable for my twinset or not. The DGX D6s are made by Deep6, I think similar to the Excursion series, but @LandonL and @cerich can probably explain where these regulators are made better than I. Although, my sneaking suspicion is that they are also built in Taiwan, considering the resemblance to other W.M.D. first stages and the HOG D1, at least visually.

 

[Still Kicking]

I would have thought that where he said my questions contained nonsense, heavily implied asking where something is made is stupid (why then do so many of thie own advertising proudly proclaim "Made in the USA"?), and then failed to actually answer my questions, that it was not I being combative or overly sensitive.

Being dissatisfied with the answers to your questions and his choice of words didn't make you overly sensitive. Complaining about it to a bunch of strangers on a chat board instead of clarifying your questions in a follow-up email made you overly sensitive.

 

[Learner Diver]

They say blind people are able to utilize their other senses much better. I think we tend to act without too much forethought when we read messages and take certain words as an insult to our intelligence or lack of it. Your complaint reminds me of a friend who ordered a strawberry and chocolate milkshake at McDonalds. Only to have the order rebuffed.

I normally look at pictures of ice divers on the internet and see what regulators they're using.

I always thought the US was ahead and quick to lead innovation. Tesla being a famous brand EV. I have found out recently that Scandinavian countries are at the top of the list while US EV owners are at the bottom of the list. Change can be slow...