Unknowing divers endangering kids

[String]

if it looked like they were coping left alone. It wasnt my business, i have no idea of their qualifications or experience and if no obvious signs of distress have to assume they know what theyre doing. Not interfering would be a sensible course of action unless you KNOW there are problems.

 

[scubafool]

String, I don't know if you have children or not, but I will ask you this anyway. If your child were certified to dive, before you went to a site that allowed diving, and considering that you were planning to dive there anyway, and considering that the dive was well within their abilities, why in the heck would you not bring along sufficient gear for the both of you? Why would you expose your child to the elevated risk that the behaviour I am taking issue with entails?

So next week I go out and get this wondrous little person that is my son certified to dive. (And believe me, my boy is one incredible human) Why in the HELL would I want to put him in such a situation with such an elevated level of risk when it is TOTALLY unneccesary? He is certified, so I don't need to "sneak" this dive in. We can do it in a safe manner, with both of us properly outfitted for the dive we intend to do.

I must admit, I am having trouble understanding your viewpoint. I am all about seeing things from the other guy's side, but it just isn't flowing for me here.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

if it looked like they were coping left alone. It wasnt my business, i have no idea of their qualifications or experience and if no obvious signs of distress have to assume they know what theyre doing. Not interfering would be a sensible course of action unless you KNOW there are problems.

And one might say...

A child held in an adult's arms breathing off scuba gives the 'appearance' that the adult 'may' not realize the danger. Having a few words with the adult would be a sensible course of action unless you KNOW there are NO problems. A more passive approach might indeed be morally reprehensible.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

BTW, I've known certified divers...even a few that were enrolled in a Divemaster course...that didn't realize the potential ramifications of swimming down and breathing off someone's alternate. Sure...they knew that they should never hold their breath while ascending on scuba. But it just hadn't clicked in their head that once they took a single breath off that octo that they were no longer 'swimming'. They get this puzzled look in their eyes when reminded of this...then the light turns on!

 

[String]

String, I don't know if you have children or not, but I will ask you this anyway. If your child were certified to dive, before you went to a site that allowed diving, and considering that you were planning to dive there anyway, and considering that the dive was well within their abilities, why in the heck would you not bring along sufficient gear for the both of you? Why would you expose your child to the elevated risk that the behaviour I am taking issue with entails?

I still cant see the issue with this. Divers dont always have dive kit. Perhaps the person didnt fancy a dive but on going snorkelling decided to stay down a bit longer to have a look around. It does happen, ive seen it and done it myself. People can change their minds or just not want the hastle of a full fledged dive preferring a 5 minute look around. I cant see any elevated risk here from a qualified diver breathing air at a shallow depth from another qualified diver.

Diving isnt rocket science, not all divers have dive gear and want to dive every single time they get near water. Sometimes they snorkel, sometimes they may make the wrong choice and want to stay under slightly longer than a free dive to look around in which case i see no issue what so ever sharing air with someone. This is a relatively benign situation that could even be classed as good practice if done with 2 qualified people.

 

[String]

And one might say...

A child held in an adult's arms breathing off scuba gives the 'appearance' that the adult 'may' not realize the danger. Having a few words with the adult would be a sensible course of action unless you KNOW there are NO problems. A more passive approach might indeed be morally reprehensible.

And how exactly do you have "a few words" underwater? More to the point what gives anyone the right to assume that someone else in the water is in some way inferior or incompetent and needs interfering with. You could be dealing with a instructor trainer talking an trainee divemaster or anything in - youve got no right to assume because you dont particulary like what theyre doing they need to be stopped. At no time did the original poster bother to check the qualifications of the father or child but without knowing that still chose to wade in and complain about it.

 

[String]

BTW, I've known certified divers...even a few that were enrolled in a Divemaster course...that didn't realize the potential ramifications of swimming down and breathing off someone's alternate. Sure...they knew that they should never hold their breath while ascending on scuba. But it just hadn't clicked in their head that once they took a single breath off that octo that they were no longer 'swimming'. They get this puzzled look in their eyes when reminded of this...then the light turns on!

That says more about woefully inadequate training standards than anything else. In the context of this thread meaningless until the qualifications of the 2 people involved actually were.

We've had qualified divers in the pool trying to give their kids a "quick breathe" of their kit even in 4ft of water. We've stopped it instantly for safety reasons. However we have no objections what so ever with 2 qualified divers doing this regardless of whether they both have kit or not. Qualification is supposed to mean they understand whats going on. You cant nanny or babysit all of these people - personal responsibility and thought has to come through. Darwin will win. Eventually.

 

[scubafool]

And how exactly do you have "a few words" underwater? More to the point what gives anyone the right to assume that someone else in the water is in some way inferior or incompetent and needs interfering with. You could be dealing with a instructor trainer talking an trainee divemaster or anything in - youve got no right to assume because you dont particulary like what theyre doing they need to be stopped. At no time did the original poster bother to check the qualifications of the father or child but without knowing that still chose to wade in and complain about it.

So I should have swam over and checked the nonexistant instructor badge on the diver and the nonexistent divemaster candidate badge on the kid who was around 1 second from dying a really miserable death? Dude, this is not difficult to figure out. This guy was certified, he didn't pay close attention during the gas laws part of his OW course, and he put a child in danger. He probably isn't a bad guy, he just didn't know what the heck he was doing.

Your whole certified diver doing a freedive & breathing off of another certified diver's octo argument just has no basis in reality here. I am trying to keep from being derogatory here, even though I probably have been already, but I just can't see why you seek to justify this.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

And how exactly do you have "a few words" underwater? More to the point what gives anyone the right to assume that someone else in the water is in some way inferior or incompetent and needs interfering with. You could be dealing with a instructor trainer talking an trainee divemaster or anything in - youve got no right to assume because you dont particulary like what theyre doing they need to be stopped. At no time did the original poster bother to check the qualifications of the father or child but without knowing that still chose to wade in and complain about it.

I have to agree with the fool. Your outlook on this seems very odd. No one is suggesting that there is anyway to talk under water...no one is suggesting that someone's way of diving is inferior or that they are incompetent...and no one is suggesting that you should interfere with someone's diving. I don't believe that it is a matter of not liking what they are doing, either. It is simply a matter of being concerned for someone else's welfare.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

That says more about woefully inadequate training standards than anything else. In the context of this thread meaningless until the qualifications of the 2 people involved actually were.

We've had qualified divers in the pool trying to give their kids a "quick breathe" of their kit even in 4ft of water. We've stopped it instantly for safety reasons. However we have no objections what so ever with 2 qualified divers doing this regardless of whether they both have kit or not. Qualification is supposed to mean they understand whats going on. You cant nanny or babysit all of these people - personal responsibility and thought has to come through. Darwin will win. Eventually.

The obvious point that I was making is that not all certified divers make the connection...once a swimmer breathes off scuba he is no longer a swimmer.
It is very likely that the adult may not have considered this.

What's the harm in having a few words with the adult. It appears that this is exactly what the fool did...and it appears that the adult accepted what the fool had to say in the spirit in which it was intended. Hey, I'd appreciate it if someone showed concern over the safety of my child...just as long as that was truly their motive. If they're just being jerks, then I'll tell 'em where to shove it!