Info Two New Dive Computers from Scubapro for 23! LUNA 2.0 (with & without Air Integration with GF) with aggressive pricing

[inquis]

The M-values do not change. Period.

I can see blurring this line. The "M" stands for "maximum", and GFs establish a new maximum. Whether you call it the "GF Line" or "M-Value Line" is a bit immaterial -- that line is still your intended maximum supersaturation. (I would agree that M0 and Slope values do not change.) IME, it's pretty clear from context which is meant.

 

[stuartv]

I can see blurring this line. The "M" stands for "maximum", and GFs establish a new maximum. Whether you call it the "GF Line" or "M-Value Line" is a bit immaterial -- that line is still your intended maximum supersaturation. (I would agree that M0 and Slope values do not change.) IME, it's pretty clear from context which is meant.

The terms are defined by the algorithm itself. Neither you nor I gets to change their definitions (and still call it the same algorithm).

If we are talking about "Buhlmann ZHL-16C with Gradient Factors", then M-values do not change.

 

[stuartv]

Sorry Stuart, but for someone who did software, you appear to be quite bad at Algorithms and Data Structures 101: a deco model is a function of 3 inputs: pressure, time, and "safe overspressure margin" aka "M-values". By changing the conservatism setting, you are changing the 3rd input. That's how it works in the Computer Science universe.

As you are being both insulting AND wrong, I will now bow out of this conversation.

If you choose to post more on this, I stipulate in advance, "sure, man. Whatever you say."

Peace out, yo. All y'all have a good weekend. I'm going to visit my family.

 

[inquis]

If we are talking about "Buhlmann ZHL-16C with Gradient Factors", then M-values do not change.

Pedantically, sure. And pedantically, all dives are dec... nevermind, I won't go there. The point is common usage of words sometimes deviates from the ORIGINAL definition. Logically, it's still a Maximum.

 

[L13]

Pedantically, sure. And pedantically, all dives are dec... nevermind, I won't go there. The point is common usage of words sometimes deviates from the ORIGINAL definition. Logically, it's still a Maximum.

And logically someone(not you) is engaging in that behavior where they make outrageous statements to spin up other forum members, enjoy the results, and keep poking as long as they get a spin.

I still can't remember the name for that behavior

 

[lexvil]

You all make me miss the days before computers

 

[Belzelbub]

Because it's too simple: when you change the conservatism, you change the M-values. If you exceed the M-values, you go into VGM lockout.

Your first statement in this post is factually incorrect. The M values don’t change. The user setting is a buffer to the M value. It doesn’t change it.

What you are asking about is the additional layer of logic that treats the conservatism setting as a "soft" M-values that can be dismissed until you hit the "hard" M-values.

Correct. Should be possible to do. Several computers will switch to a more liberal setting if you skip a stop on your set conservatism. In other words, they plot your next best solution. That’s what I ask of a computer.

There is a number of problems with it, but conceptually: how do you know that all/most of your users want it that way? There's like 5 people in this thread that do, and not one of them actually has the computer being discussed.
(Because nobody does.)

How do you know they don’t? There seem to be more in this thread that are in favor than aren’t.

So their opinion doesn’t matter because they don’t own the computer in the title of this thread? Than neither does yours.

You still haven’t answered why a 24 or 48 hour lockup is a reasonable solution to violation of a conservatism buffer, but not the M value.

 

[stuartv]

Several computers will switch to a more liberal setting if you skip a stop on your set conservatism.

Can you point me at any specific examples of computers that do that?

 

[scubadada]

Hi @stuartv

Yes, I would save your life and risk putting my Oceanic VT3 into violation gauge mode. As my other computer is a Teric, I would have no problem making the 2nd dive .

It would be a more serious consideration for me than for someone diving a considerably more conservative computer or a much lower GF high. DSAT runs a GF high of around 95 and I dive my Teric at a GF high of 95. For aggressive no stop dives and for light deco dives, I use SurfGF and surface with a GF no higher than the low 80s. My average surfacing GF for all dives is in the 50s.

Don't hold your breath, don't put your computer into violation gauge mode, don't run out of gas, easy to comply.

 

[Belzelbub]

Can you point me at any specific examples of computers that do that?

It’s hearsay, but I saw posted here that Ratio does this. Some others as well, but I can’t recall which ones.