Info Two New Dive Computers from Scubapro for 23! LUNA 2.0 (with & without Air Integration with GF) with aggressive pricing

[inquis]

Scubapro G2 does, possibly some of their other models?

 

[dmaziuk]

You still haven’t answered why a 24 or 48 hour lockup is a reasonable solution to violation of a conservatism buffer, but not the M value.

That's two questions.

Answer 1: because my chosen conservatism level is my M-value. That's why I chose it. If I thought 100/100 was safe, I'd've left it at that.

Answer 2: because by blowing past my chosen safe overpressure level I put myself at unacceptably high risk of DCS. Therefore I am spending the next 24 hours next to an oxygen bottle, monitoring for symptoms and reviewing my insurance coverage. It's not that I'm for a 24-hour lockout on the computer, it's that I don't care if it's locked out or not: I am not diving. So I fail to see what all the wailing and gnashing of teeth is all about.

 

[Belzelbub]

That's two questions.

No. It’s really one question. Just with an added clarification. But, you answered, so I appreciate it. Your reasoning makes sense for you.

That is ultimately, the key to the debate. Who is best to make the decision for you? The answer is you. You set your line in the sand as one you don’t cross. Would it make a bit of difference if your computer locked after crossing that line?

A responsible diver will make a responsible decision on when they return to diving. An irresponsible diver will not. Regardless of whether the computer tracks their N2 loading or if it just displays time and depth.

 

[scubadada]

So, what is your deco limit? It is what your computer says it is depending on the deco algorithm it is running and the personal settings you have set. Some are more conservative and some are more liberal. Regardless, you are obliged to follow you computer. If not, you run the risk of violating deco and ending up in violation gauge mode. The risk of DCS is dependent on time at depth, it will vary dependent on the computer you use.

 

[dmaziuk]

No. It’s really one question. Just with an added clarification.

Yeah, just like "have you quit beating your wife yet" is really one question, just with a tiny little added implication.

 

[Belzelbub]

So, what is your deco limit? It is what your computer says it is depending on the deco algorithm it is running and the personal settings you have set. Some are more conservative and some are more liberal. Regardless, you are obliged to follow you computer.

No argument there. However, there are situations that arise that may warrant cutting Plan A a bit short. I’ve been chased out of the water by sharks before. Didn’t break NDL, but I would likely use my judgment if I had a mandatory stop and faced with a similar issue.

If not, you run the risk of violating deco and ending up in violation gauge mode.

That’s the crux of the issue. Does a minor violation warrant a 24 hour surface interval? Or would a shorter break be OK? It really is up to the individual. Setting GF Hi at 75 and overshooting to 80 is not the same as surfacing at 110.

The risk of DCS is dependent on time at depth, it will vary dependent on the computer you use.

I don’t think you meant this the way I’m reading it. DCS risk is dependent on time, depth, and personal factors. It is not dependent on the computer you use. Though some computers will let you get closer to the limits than others. I think that’s what you meant.

Yeah, just like "have you quit beating your wife yet" is really one question, just with a tiny little added implication.

Not even close. The mental leap from what I asked to this is dizzying.

 

[dmaziuk]

Not even close. The mental leap from what I asked to this is dizzying.

There is a name for that dizzying mental leap: "loaded question". Read the wiki and be enlightened: Loaded question - Wikipedia

You still haven’t answered why a 24 or 48 hour lockup is a reasonable solution to violation of a conservatism buffer, but not the M value.

Specifically, "a conservatism buffer, but not the M value" is the controversial assumption about the set safety limit that "attempts to limit direct replies to be those that serve the questioner's agenda" (quoting the above wikipedia article).

 

[Belzelbub]

There is a name for that dizzying mental leap: "loaded question". Read the wiki and be enlightened: Loaded question - Wikipedia

That’s rich. Especially considering that my question was based on a rewording of your statement. So, perhaps the reason why you didn’t get a ”legible response” is because your questions have been loaded.

I still haven't figured out why anyone would set their conservatism to 75%, surface at 80%, and then think it's reasonable when the computer says they overshot their target setting and locks out for 24 or 48 hours. All my random poking and prodding here failed to elicit a legible response, so yeah: I don't understand. And I don't expect I ever will.

This was a rewording of your post. It is also the basis of my question that you called loaded. Your response without directly answering the question is enough for me to understand the logic (or lack of) behind your position.

 

[ArmyProDiver]

More computers going to Buhlmann ZH-L16C with GF. Too bad it's proprietary

 

[ArmyProDiver]

More computers going to Buhlmann ZH-L16C with GF. Too bad it's proprietary transmitters

There’s a lot of research pointing to using GF for deep dives.