This morning in Egypt ...

[scubadada]

Where is this spreadsheet, is it public?

I constructed it from publicly available information, though not necessarily easy to find.

 

[DandyDon]

Did it ever alarm you during your travel?

Just low level beeps so far. Doctor office fumes at times.

 

[KevinNM]

In the future, perhaps it’s good to have a full face mask with SCBA like fire fighters use to rescue people from burning building.

This appears to be common on larger commercial ships, but once you are at the point of scba you really need the full ff bunker gear. But it is not a 5 minute class to learn to use or something you can pull on in 15 seconds.

 

[Michael Kenny]

Sadly, the 3 missing persons have been confirmed as dead. They had decided not to participate in the dive and therefore did not attend the briefing, remaining in their rooms. The crew were unable to reach them. :-(

 

[noserider]

Not trying to stir up an anti certification hornets nest but could there be a role for the certification bodies like PADI, CMAS, SSI etc to set up a global safety standard for liveaboards that would include alarm systems, PPE, evacuation procedures etc.

The certifiers are focused on providing training to keep divers safe but somehow ignore one of the largest killers of divers namely poor safety standards on liveaboards. In particular PADI's vision states "With a diverse group of employees in PADI corporate offices around the world, the PADI organization works hard to be the best partner to its members and is committed to:

• Diver Safety and Education
  .............. "

Ignoring the risks on liveaboards seems at odds to PADI's vision.

I know I would be more comfortable on a boat that has been certified to a global standard rather than possibly approved by some ad hoc possibly poorly thought out and poorly administered local standard.

 

[Michael Kenny]

News reports this morning in the U.K. are that those three missing have now been found dead. RIP.

Sadly, the 3 missing persons have been confirmed as dead. They had decided not to do the dive, so did not attend the briefing and remained in their rooms. Crew members were unable to reach them.

 

[MB NZ]

Not trying to stir up an anti certification hornets nest but could there be a role for the certification bodies like PADI, CMAS, SSI etc to set up a global safety standard for liveaboards that would include alarm systems, PPE, evacuation procedures etc.

The certifiers are focused on providing training to keep divers safe but somehow ignore one of the largest killers of divers namely poor safety standards on liveaboards. In particular PADI's vision states "With a diverse group of employees in PADI corporate offices around the world, the PADI organization works hard to be the best partner to its members and is committed to:

• Diver Safety and Education
  .............. "

Ignoring the risks on liveaboards seems at odds to PADI's vision.

I know I would be more comfortable on a boat that has been certified to a global standard rather than possibly approved by some ad hoc possibly poorly thought out and poorly administered local standard.

While I don't entirely disagree, multiple issues with cost and enforcement across different global jurisdictions come to mind. Even if such a venture took off, what proportion of divers would shun a liveaboard because it wasn't "PADI approved", especially where there was a significant and predictable difference in cost? Compliance costs money.

I understand that everyone wants something to be done, but in a country like Egypt, that's going to be impossible to achieve without government backing. The Egyptian government has serious democratic deficiencies, so doesn't come under the scrutiny that we would expect in other countries. That's not a defence or apology for dangerous negligence of dive operations, just the reality of the situation. Maybe western governments could put pressure on the Egyptian government, but with the other problems the country is facing, I doubt much progress would be made.

Ultimately, your safety is going to come down to personal responsibility. If you think the country or it's dive operations are unsafe, don't go.

 

[noserider]

While I don't entirely disagree, multiple issues with cost and enforcement across different global jurisdictions come to mind. Even if such a venture took off, what proportion of divers would shun a liveaboard because it wasn't "PADI approved", especially where there was a significant and predictable difference in cost? Compliance costs money.

I understand that everyone wants something to be done, but in a country like Egypt, that's going to be impossible to achieve without government backing. The Egyptian government has serious democratic deficiencies, so doesn't come under the scrutiny that we would expect in other countries. That's not a defence or apology for dangerous negligence of dive operations, just the reality of the situation. Maybe western governments could put pressure on the Egyptian government, but with the other problems the country is facing, I doubt much progress would be made.

Ultimately, your safety is going to come down to personal responsibility. If you think the country or it's dive operations are unsafe, don't go.

I agree compliance costs money, but you can start with a voluntary standard that operators agree to meet and take it from there. Obviously once you get into audits etc then costs escalate and there will always be section of consumers that just don’t care

A voluntary international standard can also bypass inefficiencies With local governments

Most of the coffee we drink has a green frog on it and that standard was built by enlightened companies adopting voluntary standards to raise the standards in the coffee industry and this is an approach that has worked in many sectors

 

[BlueTrin]

I know nothing about boats, but I was wondering, isn’t it a bit odd to not have an alarm and save your boat?

If I owned a boat I’d rather not have sink unless the insurance pays a higher value than the cash flows it generates?

Also would a smoke alarm have prevented the fire to spread and the boat to sink by alerting the crew in time?

 

[Mike Walker]

Not trying to stir up an anti certification hornets nest but could there be a role for the certification bodies like PADI, CMAS, SSI etc to set up a global safety standard for liveaboards that would include alarm systems, PPE, evacuation procedures etc.

The certifiers are focused on providing training to keep divers safe but somehow ignore one of the largest killers of divers namely poor safety standards on liveaboards. In particular PADI's vision states "With a diverse group of employees in PADI corporate offices around the world, the PADI organization works hard to be the best partner to its members and is committed to:

• Diver Safety and Education
  .............. "

Ignoring the risks on liveaboards seems at odds to PADI's vision.

I know I would be more comfortable on a boat that has been certified to a global standard rather than possibly approved by some ad hoc possibly poorly thought out and poorly administered local standard.

This is a very good idea. Much better than my local inspector idea.

MB NZ is correct that it is unlikely the government will help - but that doesn't mean nothing can be done.
On a global scale commercial pressure seems the only viable option.

Even better if the training agencies work together (WRSTC?) - no courses permitted on boats that don't have certification from at least one agency. I wonder if the travel insurers might be another avenue - no insurance on uncertified boats.....

Customers can and will pay more - we just need to weed out the unrealistically cheap options as well as any overly greedy owners so the 'to good to be true' prices aren't being dangled in front of the uninformed.