This morning in Egypt ...

[boulderjohn]

I think the problem can be seen clearly in post #183. In it, a survivor of the Red Sea Aggressor fire clearly shows that owners can put in whatever standards and rules they wish, but you have no way of knowing if the crew will actually follow through on those advertised policies. To save you the read, the trip was shortly after the Conception fire in California, the passengers selected the ship because of their concerns about safety, the boat and crew promised significant safety features and policies, and nearly all of those promises were broken immediately. They were lucky only one person died.

Just as a point about rules and policies on safety equipment....

Two American tourists just died in a hotel in Mexico, and the cause of death has been identified as inhalation of an as yet unidentified toxic gas. The hotel had recently disabled the carbon monoxide alarms because they kept going off and disturbing the customers.

Two Americans found dead at Mexico resort died from inhaling toxic gas

Workers at luxury hotel where John Heathco and Abby Lutz died report managers had disabled carbon monoxide alarms

www.theguardian.com

 

[cjkotro]

I design homes and commercial buildings for a living in the US. This is a little like comparing apples to oranges, but maybe some of these safety measures could be incorporated into passenger boats. In houses, all bedrooms must have an egress window and a smoke alarm. There also must be a CO detector on each level. When you get into multi-family homes it gets much tougher. Each unit (apartment, condo, townhouse) has to be separated by a 2-hour firewall, which means, it will take a fire 2-hours to spread from 1 unit to another. The amount of exits from the building is determined by the size. Travel distances to an exit is limited, and determined by what the structure is made of, sprinklers, etc. Most buildings require sprinklers. Skyscrapers and other commercial buildings require fire detection alarms that automatically contact the fire department with the building's location.

Obviously, not all of these safety measures can be incorporated into a boat, but some can. A huge design improvement would be to have the cabins back to back, with exits to the exterior, instead of cabins exiting to a long interior corridor.

Bottom line is, we have to be responsible for our own safety until these liveaboards become safer. If divers stop booking with shady tour operators, they'll eventually be forced out of business. It's huge that we all communicate our experiences to each other here on SB! Don't give a dive-op a bad review because your towel wasn't warm enough. Let's stick with the important stuff...your safety! Call out the boats that don't carry oxygen, don't have multiple emergency exits in working order, don't have night watchmen patrolling, etc. Let's not be afraid to walk away from a trip no matter how far we've traveled or how much money we've spent. Yes, way easier said than done! We have to stop giving these bad boats our money. It's the only way they'll change.

 

[Edward3c]

Updated spreadsheet, please forward additional information and corrections

View attachment 787793

You can now add Emperor Echo see Emperor Echo damaged; guests and crew safe.

 

[Jollymon32]

Upper deck/main deck cabin only for me or I’ll pass/pick a later trip - no way I’m sleeping in a lower deck/below the water line cabin.

On my first liveaboard (Blue Manta), I could open my cabin door and jump right over the rail and I’d be in the water. I brought CO and smoke detectors with me and had a ditch bag with a 6 Ft SMB and PLB in canister attached on my nightstand. I also moved the life jacket there as well.

The first thing I did when I got onboard was to walk the entire boat to see where everything was and that all escape routes were functioning/clear (they were). There is never a 100% guarantee that things will all work out, but I figure I’ll at least try to maximize my chances by taking a few easy steps.

I admire your precautions and preparedness. I question if these preparations really point to an inherent or higher than not probability of a danger/threat that would render the entire activity a “no go” for me. Like if I had to take a parachute with me on a plane because it was likely to fall out of the sky, I would not get in the flight.

 

[Joneill]

I admire your precautions and preparedness. I question if these preparations really point to an inherent or higher than not probability of a danger/threat that would render the entire activity a “no go” for me. Like if I had to take a parachute with me on a plane because it was likely to fall out of the sky, I would not get in the flight.

There have been MANY deadly live aboard fires and there are many choices of live aboard and cabin locations if you plan in advance - so I like to minimize my risk in the event of a problem by being choiceful in my planning.

In my opinion, the analogy to a parachute on a plane is not really a good one as, other than picking a carrier, you don’t have much control/choice if you need to travel to far flung destinations.