Sandwich Sidemount

[bamafan]

I have seen several videos on this system with the backplate. I have yet to see them diving anything tight. If you can get through stuff with a helmet on and don't have to turn your head sideways it isn't tight. Lots of stuff works in big cave that won't work in the tight stuff.

 

[Razorista]

Your problem with understanding seems to be @nakatomi, that you always seem to focus on the messenger, instead of the message

 

[nakatomi]

Your problem with understanding seems to be @nakatomi, that you always seem to focus on the messenger, instead of the message

Your messages were:

a. the handling (diving) of a sidemount rig is identical in OW and in overhead environment / cave

and

b. a rigid backplate in sidemount should be fine, because it works for someone else in a certain scenario

Let me be very clear to say that I completely disagree.
Regardless of you being the messenger.

 

[Razorista]

It is in my opinion not a system for small passages but rather for a big gas load.

I would however guess that the number of open water Toddy users already exceeds the number of real exploration divers.
So this 'cave focus' looks laughable at best to me.
Especially with the thread starter of course diving extreme restrictions all the time exclusively with his backmounted 12s
Sometimes it would be fun to just focus on discussion instead of..., well what ever this is at the moment.

 

[Razorista]

Your messages were:

a. the handling (diving) of a sidemount rig is identical in OW and in overhead environment / cave

and

b. a rigid backplate in sidemount should be fine, because it works for someone else in a certain scenario

Let me be very clear to say that I completely disagree.
Regardless of you being the messenger.

As I said, that really seems to be your problem nakatomi.

The rigid backplate is fine, if you do not want to bent your back too much and make sure it cannot get stuck anywhere - by not going into that extrem restrictions for example.

And of course the handling of any diving rig is identical everywhere, not only ow and overhead.
Just close your eyes ones and tell me if you are in a cave or outside with a thick hood or wearing a helmet and while you are at it also tell me your depth.

That's what I do not like about some of those discussions: more distractions than substance.

 

[nakatomi]

It is in my opinion not a system for small passages but rather for a big gas load.

What does a "gas load" have to do with any of this?
Sidemount is designed for small (low) passage, areas that do not cater to a backmount configuration.
So if your point is that the sandwiched BP solution is ok for OW and BM caves but not for sidemount cave, I agree.

And since pretty much all of the caves I have been to contain some sidemount passages, that makes a sandwiched BP about as useful as BM.

As I said, that really seems to be your problem nakatomi.

The rigid backplate is fine, if you do not want to bent your back too much and make sure it cannot get stuck anywhere - by not going into that extrem restrictions for example.

And of course the handling of any diving rig is identical everywhere, not only ow and overhead.
Just close your eyes ones and tell me if you are in a cave or outside with a thick hood or wearing a helmet and while you are at it also tell me your depth.

That's what I do not like about some of those discussions: more distractions than substance.

Are you serious? I'm not even going to reply to that since you are making assumptions as usual, about something (overhead environment diving) you have little to no experience with.

Do you remember when you posted that open water diving was way more dangerous than cave diving? Because, so you said, in OW if the compass fails, one could be forced to surface in a shipping lane and get run over by a freighter.
In cave diving on the other hand (again your words), nothing can happen as there are lines everywhere making it pretty much bulletproof and very safe.
Please spare us your wisdom when it comes to cave diving...

 

[tbone1004]

I mean, there is some validity to the dangers of OW being different than cave diving.... You can in fact get lost and have your head taken off by a screw, or like some others have argued for massive wings and ditchable weight, be caught in a down current, none of which exist in a cave....

 

[Razorista]

...Sidemount is designed for small (low) passage, ...

it is?

That's just one of the ways to use it.

Do you remember when you posted that open water diving was way more dangerous than cave diving? Because, so you said, in OW if the compass fails, one could be forced to surface in a shipping lane and get run over by a freighter.
In cave diving on the other hand (again your words), nothing can happen as there are lines everywhere making it pretty much bulletproof and very safe.
Please spare us your wisdom when it comes to cave diving...

You should stop misquoting me on purpose.

I once said in a discussion that sidemount beginners without cavediving experience can easily get into situations that are as much 'overhead environments' as any cave.
Dangerous especially because cave divers should know a bit about gas planning to get certified, open water divers can often get by without that knowlege.
How often do certified cavedivers empty their tanks completely by mistake compared to open water divers?
You rarely hear about a cave diver making such a serious mistake afterwards, but open water divers often survive with a lot of luck too and luck can run out with the number of sidemount noobs increasing.

 

[toby43]

Thanks all who have commented and those who have given advice. I have seen older folk diving in Europe with home made sandwich systems, usually with bungeed wing. Pretty experienced cave divers too. Maybe not the most fashionable though. I'm comfortable with backmount in a cave, it' s just the knee issue. Think I will look again at the ready mades. I dive a lot with people who use them, seems to be a good excuse to play with bungy cord from what Ive seen

 

[Razorista]

You can use sidemount as an excuse for almost anything that someone might consider fun underwater

Regarding Germany: Contact Axel Früh at Tauchcenter Freiburg in the South or Martin Zeschke in the North.
Not the only ones, but certainly the best around.