Robbing Paul to pay Peter... a disturbing trend with Revo Rebreathers

[Superlyte27]

and is that the reason why you have such a 'grunch' against me personally? (see your post nr2) (to be clear, i am not that manufacturer!)

Dude, its not always about you. I don't like you because of your business model, [MOD Edit - personal comments removed] but I don't have a grudge against you at all. Frankly, you don't play ANY role in my life. I never think about you without a catalyst like this thread. So there's no time or room for a grudge. My last post was more about the giant, and only about 5% about the guy who feeds the giant (that guy being you)

 

[hroark2112]

If Kiss had forced me to train in NC or with an instructor I didn't want to train with, I never would have bought it. Same goes for DiveRite.

Kind of of reinforces my buying decisions and my decisions for who I recommend! I talked to the rEvo folks at DEMA, the units look cool and have some nice options, but I hate hearing the drama like this.

If I bought a second hand rEvo and wanted to train with Jim, would he be required to train me in High Springs?

 

[Superlyte27]

I don't think anyone in this thread is making negative comments about a company insisting on and maintaining high standards for instructors.

That's not the point.

The point it Jim is a eEvo instructor with a territory in High Springs - a territory that is routinely invaded by south Florida instructors. .

I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. ALL THE INSTRUCTORS , not just south Florida, but the instructors from all of USA

 

[paulraymaekers]

I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. ALL THE INSTRUCTORS , not just south Florida, but the instructors from all of USA

and that has Always been fine, there was never discussion, as none of these instructors started actively fishing clients from that area: so there was never a conflict of interest, nor a violation of any agreement

now on the other hand, some instructors moved out of there own area, into someone elses area, and formed a group, and started actively recruiting clients from that area, using facebook, advertising, and that was clearly a violation of all agreements we have

even more, the area's where they moved out, were not develloped, nothing happened, so they loose the territory exclusivity, as that was/is also the agreement

and now a few friends of these people start a post here on this forum, feeding the posts with false arguments, just because they happen to like some of the people involved.

but that does not make it right, violating agreements

explain me this: how can I allow someone to train in someone elses territory, and be sure that he/she does not recruit actively in that area, WHEN HE LIVES THERE NOW AND HAS STARTED UP A CCR ACTIVITY TOGETHER WITH A LOCAL OPERATOR?

so where this stands now: you can book rEvo training with any instructor, and do training anywhere in the world, except for locations where people violate our agreements: as it is not correct for the active instructors/dealers, people that have invested heavily to set up their businesses in that area

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Wow! I spend upwards of perhaps 10 grand on a unit, willing to spend another 2 or 3 to go somewhere warm to train, and I can't decide who is going to train me? I can't train with the instructor that I trust and have perhaps formed a relationship with? That immediately removes that gear from my list of consideration.

For the record I never thought I would consider a rebreather. However having just taken up photography with a DSLR and housing it has crossed my mind. Should it become a reality no mfg is going to tell me where I will train and who the instructor will be if they are qualified to teach the unit. That's my decision.

 

[Superlyte27]

Can you answer the question being asked? Or intentionally being obtuse?

 

[jebernot]

I have no dog in this fight except that my facility is the facility used by most of the people on both sides of this discussion. Well not by some on a certain side at this point, but I try to support all units and all instructors that are respectful of basic practices, are good instructors, and need a place to work out of. And a certain level of respect is expected while I am host, just as I would offer if I were working out of their facility. We are a destination but nothing like the keys. I will give you an example of a situation that has happened to me and how I feel no ill will in it due to the nature in which it occurred. I was approached to become an instructor on a certain unit for North Florida. I understood with the exception of instructors coming from other areas I would be the guy. Soon afterwards another instructor moved to the area. Now here is why it is understandable. He was an instructor long before he chose to move. I do not think any reasonable company would cease to allow an instructor to teach when they clearly did not become an instructor in one area just to move and take over in another. Undercutting of price, poor business practices...different story. Here in the good ole USA we try to protect an individuals ability to earn and make a living for their family. To be frank, most of my ccr clients are not from this area. I attract people from all over the world, as do most good ccr instructors. Guess what, I have supported my nearest competitor in the last few months with CCR parts on a unit I teach on and they the same. It's good business and shows a general support in the local area to those divers who come in on that unit. I don't know how REVO works exactly as I am not an instructor. Do they pay commission based on ZIP code? ZIP Code on the divers drivers license? I can think of probably 6 REVO instructors who have frequented my facility in the last year. I don't make a dollar off the REVO. It's not a unit I am particularly interested in, I'm not going to push it...but a lot of REVO classes have been taught in my classroom free of charge to the instructor...MOD1, Trimix, and Cave. I thought politics in cave country was bad....WOW.

 

[Phil_C]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Please keep this conversation relevant, polite and refrain from personal comments or attacks, I have removed some comments that breach the SB terms of reference

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[Capt Jim Wyatt]

Agreements:??

I recall no written agreements regarding territories. If I signed such a document please let me see it, as I have no copy or recollection of such a document. I do recall that I was actively recruited to become a revo instructor to fill the gap in North Florida.

The things I recall are that I would be the exclusive dealer for selling revo rebreathers in North Florida. I recall no such agreement that I could not travel to Key largo, or anywhere else and teach someone to dive on the revo. Paul spent about a week, maybe longer as a guest in my home and my family enjoyed his company, as he did ours I believe. So I spent all day, and most evenings with Paul for that entire period of time and I recall no such rules as my being unable to teach in places like Key Largo.

There would have been no thought of my being able to do that since there were several instructors teaching Mod 1, 2 and ccr cave on revos in north Florida.

Also I recall a verbal agreement with Mr. Sotis that I would not sell revos to South Floridians, and we agreed if someone from South Florida inquired I would refer them to Mr. Sotis. I had and have no issues with Paul giving Mr. Sotis an exclusivity for revo sales in South Florida. I never sold a revo to anyone in South Florida, nor did Mr Sotis or anyone sell a revo to anyone in North Florida, to my knowledge.

The people who live in that area, for the most part went for the O2ptima, and now that the O2ptima has gotten new electronics more and more North Florida people will buy the O2ptima.


Once again..and I am really beating a dead horse here and I apologize to those of you who "got it" from my first post here. Why are all those revo instructors allowed to teach in my territory while I am not allowed to teach in Key Largo?



The argument that I spend most of my time in Key Largo lacks merit as a substantial reason to prevent me from teaching here. There is one revo instructor, who has three brand new revos sitting in boxes at Cave Country Dive Shop who probably spends as much time in Cave Country teaching classes as I do the Keys teaching classes, yet there is no prohibition against that instructor.

 

[JonTNY]

Good Day,

I have mixed feelings about the issue, I consider the parties involved to be friends, I think Jim has some valid concerns and I think Paul does too, so I think the best solution would be to read the agreements that were executed between the parties? If no agreement can be produced perhaps its time to create one and implement that document moving forward.

This thread wasn't supposed to be about unit comparisons, chest pounding, self promotion or the unflattering laundry list that so many posts fall victim to, so perhaps we stay on point and avoid the personal attacks.

[MOD Edit - comments removed as breaching ToR]

Cheers,

JonT