Robbing Paul to pay Peter... a disturbing trend with Revo Rebreathers

[pensacolaracer]

If there are any budding instructors that want to develop rEvo in Hawaii, there is currently a HUGE vacuum out here.

I can't get an instructor out here quickly or often enough to meet all the inquiries I have on rEvo.

So they go with who is out here... Hollis.

 

[that guy]

Just for the record, anyone who knows me is well aware of the reasons why I moved back to the east coast and it had nothing to do with diving. When I arrived in Key Largo one of my top priorities was to discuss with Peter and Paul how I could partner up. Peter didn't want to hear any of it and now we find ourselves where we are today. I play nice as long as everyone involved is nice.

 

[Superlyte27]

Now I'm really confused. Who the heck is that guy? Lol. And which Peter is he referring to. There are three Peters involved in this thread.

 

[that guy]

Now I'm really confused. Who the heck is that guy? Lol. And which Peter is he referring to. There are three Peters involved in this thread.

Hawaii rEvo instructor now in Key Largo, Peter Sotis

 

[Superlyte27]

Haha, gotcha.

 

[lift bag mcgee]

There is mention of an instructor that has 3 units in high springs and also spends lots of time teaching in high springs. Is it relevant to mention that the units "might be for" students outside Florida and probably from the other side of the country...??... Such a case would seem that this instructor is only using high springs to train and is in no way recruiting from the Florida "territory". Would it also be pertenent that this instructor's (who spends so much time in high springs) students are from other areas...??...I could see the rub if this instructor and/or units were for students local to Florida. But let's assume that these students are from areas that won't have the best conditions for training (like climate, etc) or that the training is for CCR Cave thereby "you kinda" have to be in high springs (or Mexico). I suppose my point (as others have noted) is to get ALL the facts out there and sometimes circumstances can be seen in a different light.Posting that an instructor has units waiting and teaching in high springs gives a others a leading perspective that the instructor is invading "territory". But let's assume these are students are from outside areas (not from Florida) and that the students "we're not recruited" but these students sought out this instructor specifically due to good reputation, etc....and the only reason these students are coming to Florida is it provides a safer and more pleasureable training environment than diving in 40 degree F waterKnowing all of this....is the perspective different now..?....

 

[Superlyte27]

Back in the day Jim and I worked together A LOT. I spent several years working with him. In a couple of years, we co-taught students from multiple different countries, including Russia, China, France, Canada, and many many more.

The question has been asked several times. If someone calls up Jim, from anywhere in the world (which is pretty friggin common for Jim, he has quite the following) can he not teach the class in Key Largo?

Honestly, I can't count how many people I know that only want class from Jim. The number is quite high. He can't teach those classes in Key Largo?

 

[JonTNY]

My understanding is that you can BUY a REVO from any dealer you want anywhere in the world? Its the training thats territorial?

Please explain the understood and in place policy.

Are these rules memorialized in a written agreement?

This information is necessary before any substantive conclusion can be drawn.

JonT

 

[The Chairman]

. Is it relevant to mention that the units "might be for" students outside Florida and probably from the other side of the country...??... Such a case would seem that this instructor is only using high springs to train and is in no way recruiting from the Florida "territory".

Welcome to the United Nations of ScubaBoard! Instructors often use ScubaBoard to make a name for themselves. They post and encourage their students to post in order to stand out in an overly crowded field. Is this recruiting? Sure it is. It's a platform anyone can use... unless of course they've been banned from a particular forum as has happened to Jim recently. Bans should never be over competition or personality clashes. Asking instructors to not use this platform, even telling them to pull their banners, is hog tying them needlessly and costs me business. Mind you, I had no idea about that when I started this thread.

So, who's really being unfair here, Paul? You're showing unfair favoritism to one instructor over another and you wonder why one is so successful and the other not so much? You're being pushed, even played, but it's not by Jim. It's not by me. My reputation as an instructor is impeccable, but there is no apparent path for me to become one for Revo rebreathers. In a field with so many great choices, this affects my decision greatly. Again, I think it's fair that other potential Revo pilots find out about this before they invest time and money in the unit.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

There is mention of an instructor that has 3 units in high springs and also spends lots of time teaching in high springs. Is it relevant to mention that the units "might be for" students outside Florida and probably from the other side of the country...??... Such a case would seem that this instructor is only using high springs to train and is in no way recruiting from the Florida "territory".

Yes that is quite possible and very likely knowing the history of this instructor. I would like to be afforded the same treatment by revo, but I am not. lift bag mcgee - please wade thru this thread and read all my posts. You will find I have no issues with these practices, so long as they are applied equally to all revo instructors. Go to post #22

Would it also be pertenent that this instructor's (who spends so much time in high springs) students are from other areas...??...I could see the rub if this instructor and/or units were for students local to Florida. But let's assume that these students are from areas that won't have the best conditions for training (like climate, etc) or that the training is for CCR Cave thereby "you kinda" have to be in high springs (or Mexico). I suppose my point (as others have noted) is to get ALL the facts out there and sometimes circumstances can be seen in a different light.Posting that an instructor has units waiting and teaching in high springs gives a others a leading perspective that the instructor is invading "territory".

My intent was not to say this instructor is invading territory. I think this instructor has every right to do what is being done in a free market economy. However, as I have stated previously I should have the same right, and I do not. I am told I cannot teach anyone in Key Largo. Not even someone who wants to take an advanced wreck class from me on a revo. Lots of people want that class from me and not from anyone else since I served on that ship and have a perspective on that ship unlike anyone else in the world.

But let's assume these are students are from outside areas (not from Florida) and that the students "we're not recruited" but these students sought out this instructor specifically due to good reputation, etc....and the only reason these students are coming to Florida is it provides a safer and more pleasureable training environment than diving in 40 degree F waterKnowing all of this....is the perspective different now..?....

There is nothing new you have added here, the perspective is just as I had been stating all along. I have been specifically recruited by students from Georgia, Tennessee, Canada, and Florida and other places due to my reputation, etc but yet I am not allowed to teach them according to revo.

---------- Post added November 29th, 2015 at 09:28 AM ----------

unless of course they've been banned from a particular forum as has happened to Jim recently. Bans should never be over competition or personality clashes.

Recently I was banned from both The Deco Stop and Rebreather World. I have read the TOS for both forums and fail to see where I violated them. Of course it is readily apparent to me why I was banned from these forums. The bans result from competition in the revo marketplace. The owner of both of those forums, Mr. Sotis is allowed to teach Mod 1, 2 and CCR Cave in my territory and I have petitioned to teach Mod 1, 2 and Advanced Wreck in his territory and have been told no.

As I have stated over and over I fully support Mr Sotis and all others to travel to High Springs with their revo students and teach whatever revo class they have been asked to teach. By the same token I should be allowed to do the same. Those that disagree, what am I missing??

It is not surprising to me that neither Mr Sotis who comes here as Dreamdive nor Paul will answer the question why it is acceptable for revo instructors to teach in my territory, but I cannot teach in Key Largo.