Robbing Paul to pay Peter... a disturbing trend with Revo Rebreathers

[Superlyte27]

Jim, that simple question has been asked at least 4 times. Let's make it 5.

I have a friend from Chicago that would very much like to take his rEvo advanced wreck course on the speigelgrove by a man who once lived on the spiegelgrove as an officer. That man (Jim Wyatt) has more knowledge and time on that ship than any other instructor on the planet. Can my friend pay jim for that class?

I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THIS ANSWER.

 

[The Chairman]

To sum up the answers given so far...

Spoiler

Because!​

 

[rzep]

Sometime, in the 90s, I was sailing between Vancouver Island and Queen Charlotte Islands. The last stop before crossing the QC strait was a little village called Bella Bella. I was sitting in the bar, about to break last two beers in a six pack, when got approached by native American gentleman.
"My brother!" he said, sitting himself by my table - "I am the direct descendent of Big Chief so and so (sorry I don't recollect actual name) of the great Heiltsuk Nation. My people have a sole rights of exploring the realm of ocean from here to Hawaii west, to Bering Sea north and to southern tip of Vancouver Island south."
I have to admit I was drown to the conversation just by the striking knowledge of geography.
"If you want" - continued my new friend - "I can transfer to you those rights, for..... those two beers, you got left."
Faced with the deal of a lifetime, I counteroffered with one beer, which offer was gladly accepted by, as it turned out latter, local teacher.

The conclusion,... well, I wonder, maybe somebody have a similar conversation with ... a Seminole gentleman and purchase the rights to Atlantic Ocean and Caribbean Sea.
As for instructors in Hawaii, Alaska and British Columbia I'll be selling unit specific exclusive economic zones soon.
rgrds
Tomek

---------- Post added November 29th, 2015 at 03:11 PM ----------

 

[Tassi Devil Diver]

My reputation as an instructor is impeccable, but there is no apparent path for me to become one for Revo rebreathers. In a field with so many great choices, this affects my decision greatly. Again, I think it's fair that other potential Revo pilots find out about this before they invest time and money in the unit.

If your main consideration in choosing your first rebreather is your ability to teach on the unit, then I would seriously question your motivation to get a rebreather and you should probably question your own motivations. You need to have a long hard think about why you want a rebreather, think about your diving goals. Choosing a rebreather based on the ability to teach that unit will highly compromise your choice. Or maybe you should just jump strait to it and get a Disco, that would be the path of least resistance, and you could probably be teaching on the unit after 25hrs of dive time.

 

[The Chairman]

If your main consideration in choosing your first rebreather is your ability to teach on the unit,

All things being equal, then this becomes a huge factor. It's not like the Revo is the best breathing rebreather out there. It's not like it's the most revolutionary. It's def lost it's wow factor as several other dependable and easier breathing units have become available. I'm not looking for the 'path of least resistance', but I don't certainly want a path of infinite resistance either. There are lots of great choices out there including the Kiss, the Hammerhead, the Op2ima and the RF2 and all of them have a defined path to become an instructor and none have this preferential crap that I can see. They've earned my trust by their ethical dealings and frankly, Revo has lost a good portion of that here. You can bury your head in the sand and act like this does not influence decisions, but it does.

FWIW, I have heard that a FOURTH Course Director is about to put their Revo up for sale. Why? They can't teach on it. I'm definitely not the only one who feels this way.

 

[Superlyte27]

As instructors, if you're not picking a rebreather you might one day want to teach, you're not thinking far enough ahead.

 

[mselenaous]

. There is a significant proportion of the current & future rebreather population that do not ever want to teach. They have the disposable income to buy what they want, train with whom they choose, and where they choose and even pay the instructor to travel to that locale. We are in a global economy facilitated by information on the interwebz.
And then there is the population of professional divers who over years of dedication & investment in education & equipment, years in the water with and without students, are at the top their profession. Keeping on top of the ever changing industry trends is a requirement in any profession. Currently that trend in diving is the growing market of rebreathers. These are the people that look at each new investment of time & money as eventual career growth.
I have learned to never say never and leave my future options open.
Once upon a time I laughed at drysuit divers and swore I would never dive in cold water, then God laughed and sent me to SoCal where I dove in cold water, taught in cold water,, dove a drysuit, and eventually taught drysuit. I also said I'd never ever dive a cave...I'm finishing full cave this month. I believed I'd never be able to dive with more than one tank, yet last week I completed my first 185’ trimix dive. Am I going to teach cave or deco? At this time in my life, no, but I've learned to never say never. With each new adventure, my students and friends want to do what I do and they want me to teach them when I'm ready...when I have worked hard to accomplish a performance level that translates into being an excellent instructor. Will I get there? Maybe, maybe not, but I don’t want to look down that hallway to see a brick wall rather than a door.
With that in mind, I now look down the line, especially with an investment in equipment as substantial as a rebreather as a potential career decision.
Let’s face it. The dive industry has been built like a pyramid scheme…learn to dive, now become a DM, then an instructor. While not everyone will move up the pyramid, or as far up the dive pyramid as rebreathers, many dreams have launched more than a few careers.
I really enjoyed my rEvo class. I am glad that the instructional cadre of rEvo instructors has been selective…only the best of the best. But if going in I know that my dream to possibly be one of those elite is squashed, then why would I go down that path. There are plenty of good alternatives available for me to invest my future, not just my sport.
Just keeping the dream alive.


Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

 

[kelemvor]

This is one of the instances where the scuba industry needs some government regulation in my opinion. A rebreather manufacturer should not be able to dictate where someone can train folks on their equipment. It's a shady as F**k.

It's a bummer that Jim got taken by revo... sometimes you have to chalk it up as lesson learned, get the word out about your experience, and move on.

As a potential customer, I started researching rebreathers last year. There was not a situation where "all signs point to revo". Teach and sell a different rebreather.

Of course.. with all the used revo's on the market lately, maybe revo will now be the lowest cost option

 

[Dsix36]

I have previously spoken to several of the parties mentioned in this thread in regards to all this territory stuff. I am fortunate enough to know several other rEvo instructors as well. Regardless of what I have been told privately and also in public, I have formed my own rather educated opinion on this matter. Several people have approached me asking what I think in regards to this and I am posting this for everyone to read - I think that territorial sales is fine but territorial training is wrong.

I will state for the record that I do not believe Paul is capable of ever admitting that his ideas or designs are less than perfect. Even when he finally caved into consumer pressure and installed a button on the dreams, he still said the original were perfect and the new were merely "more" perfect.

Fortunately I am not in a position where any of this makes a big deal in either my diving enjoyment or making a living. I certainly can see where a dive professional could be offended by these rules.

 

[hroark2112]

I love how posts just disappear from this thread.