Robbing Paul to pay Peter... a disturbing trend with Revo Rebreathers

[mdax]

You started this thread after a weekend of talking with your buddies who were impacted and who you support. I don't believe you wanted open dialogue in an unbiased way, you are clearly biased against revo based on your friends experiences....maybe for good reason. It sounds like policies are not clear or applied equally.

The population of divers who look to a rebreather with an eye on teaching has to be pretty low, that's really the only folks who should care about this whole situation. Matching a unit based on dive objectives and needs is FAR more important than instructor, you can find good instructors on any unit if you spend time researching.

 

[The Chairman]

You started this thread after a weekend of talking with your buddies who were impacted and who you support.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! First, it was a Thanksgiving meal... not a weekend. Second, this has been circulating in my head since just before DEMA at the Hammerhead discover day at Blue Grotto. However, and this should be noted, the three Course Directors were not that forthcoming with info beyond the fact that their Revo Rebreathers were for sale. I believe I even stated this elsewhere and to say they were reticent is an understatement. I can tell you that when I brought up the possibility of this thread to get some answers I was met with nothing but incredulity. When they realized that I was somewhat serious, they clammed up even more and told me not to quote them in any such thread. I've tried to honor their requests and still make it a good thread. How absurd that people should consider these agreements as being sacrosanct and beyond the average diver's ability to comprehend. You don't have to be a moron to be a diver. You don't have to be an uniformed idiot, totally relying on your instructor's whims to purchase or dive a rebreather. Open discussions about what is and what isn't aren't only fair: they serve the greater good for transparency. If an entity doesn't like their policies exposed, then that is yet another reason to discuss them. Apparently, it's touched a sore spot in that regard. We have some pretty smart and insightful people here on ScubaBoard. I've learned a lot from this thread already and hope to learn even more. That's what a forum is all about, isn't it?

 

[Wookie]

Whoa, whoa, whoa! First, it was a Thanksgiving meal... not a weekend. Second, this has been circulating in my head since just before DEMA at the Hammerhead discover day at Blue Grotto. However, and this should be noted, the three Course Directors were not that forthcoming with info beyond the fact that their Revo Rebreathers were for sale. I believe I even stated this elsewhere and to say they were reticent is an understatement. I can tell you that when I brought up the possibility of this thread to get some answers I was met with nothing but incredulity. When they realized that I was somewhat serious, they clammed up even more and told me not to quote them in any such thread. I've tried to honor their requests and still make it a good thread. How absurd that people should consider these agreements as being sacrosanct and beyond the average diver's ability to comprehend. You don't have to be a moron to be a diver. You don't have to be an uniformed idiot, totally relying on your instructor's whims to purchase or dive a rebreather. Open discussions about what is and what isn't aren't only fair: they serve the greater good for transparency. If an entity doesn't like their policies exposed, then that is yet another reason to discuss them. Apparently, it's touched a sore spot in that regard. We have some pretty smart and insightful people here on ScubaBoard. I've learned a lot from this thread already and hope to learn even more. That's what a forum is all about, isn't it?

Pete, this thread is FUDDD at it's worst. The folks you spoke with and the folks you referenced and the folks we aren't talking about and the folks that aren't talking are gentlemen of the highest order. They do not air their dirty laundry in public, and the folks who aren't talking aren't the kind of folks who "out" other folks. You have taken what is essentially a private understanding and thrown it out for everyone to see.

IMHO, you have not advanced the scuba industry in any positive way by bringing this topic up, but you have ensured that no one ever will ever tell you the whole story. You have turned the "average" prospective rebreather diver away from a perfectly good unit because of something you thought was happening, when in reality, something completely different was going on, but the folks involved are too much of a classy act to involve themselves in this type of yellow journalism. You run a good board. Many thousands of people get great enjoyment from it. I include myself in those thousands, and I consider myself your friend, but it's time to let this one go before someone suffers a serious loss of reputation. Sometimes professionals have to agree to disagree, and that is all anyone else needs to know.

 

[SillyQuestions]

Sometimes professionals have to agree to disagree, and that is all anyone else needs to know.

Why is that all we need to know?

Why can't we know the details?

What's wrong with transparent business practices?

If I was running a corner shop and sending your money to ISIS, you'd want to know.

If a person is making units whilst running immoral business practices, I want to know. Cos I don't want to give them my money.

If those allegations of immoral business practices aren't true. Fair play. But then I want to know where they come from. Because as a consumer, I want to know.


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[Wookie]

Because it's none of your damn business, and if the people involved thought it was, they would come here to tell you all about it. Buy a rEvo, don't buy a rEvo, but the reasons for this thread are not important to your choice.

Why is that all we need to know?

Why can't we know the details?

What's wrong with transparent business practices?

If I was running a corner shop and sending your money to ISIS, you'd want to know.

If a person is making units whilst running immoral business practices, I want to know. Cos I don't want to give them my money.

If those allegations of immoral business practices aren't true. Fair play. But then I want to know where they come from. Because as a consumer, I want to know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SillyQuestions]

Because it's none of your damn business, and if the people involved thought it was, they would come here to tell you all about it. Buy a rEvo, don't buy a rEvo, but the reasons for this thread are not important to your choice.

Yes. Trust people providing you with products and with money to gain/lose. They always tell the truth and act in your best interest.


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[kelemvor]

Well.. I, for one, am thankful for having seen the thread. I bought several scubapro products before I found out about their unfair practices (imo). Had I known at the time I wouldn't have used the brand. In this case I got to find out about some shadiness before I made a purchase.

 

[Rhone Man]

It is your right to walk on by if you don't like the policies. It is not your right to make Paul change his dealer agreements. Your rights end at your wallet.

Actually there are pretty specific laws about prohibiting anti-competitive behaviour. However I cannot imagine anyone cares enough about a market this tiny to take that kind of look at it.

 

[boulderjohn]

I would like to repeat the question I asked earlier: what constitutes a protected territory?

Am I to understand that Key Largo is part of the protected territory for a shop in Fort Lauderdale? Does that shop have the exclusive rights to all of south Florida?

 

[kr2y5]

The folks you spoke with and the folks you referenced and the folks we aren't talking about and the folks that aren't talking are gentlemen of the highest order. They do not air their dirty laundry in public, and the folks who aren't talking aren't the kind of folks who "out" other folks. You have taken what is essentially a private understanding and thrown it out for everyone to see.

I wonder in what other groups and cultures applying peer pressure against "talking" defines a "gentleman of the highest order"... is that truly a standard to live up to?