"Right to Repair" - Potentially great news for DIY!

[markmud]

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So you believe in the free market....but only when it acts the way you want it to?

And when it doesn't act how you want it to, you make the govt force it to do what you want?

Lol

M-Cameron,

Your logical fallacy starts with defining the "free market" as a market place devoid of regulation. Anarchy does not work. The modern definition of free market is not anarchy.

There will always be unscrupulous and immoral people amongst us. We need government, and no one I know is advocating for a regulatory free society or market place.

Let's use Scuba Pro as an example. My wife's regulator really was sold as a subscription or long term lease arrangement, subject to unilateral changes in policy by Scuba Pro. I don't need to go into the details of Scuba Pro's former 1 year repair policy and free parts for life offer--we all know it.

We finally ended our subscription service with Scuba Pro and started paying service techs the market rate for repairing her regulator set. It was cheaper in the long run because we did not need yearly service on her regulator set.

Regulators are relatively simple devices. And, they either work correctly or they don't. We don't need a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist to repair and tune these devices.

As @Eric Sedletzky wrote previously, the service agreements and contractual prohibition on selling parts was to support the LDS, at the expense of the "renter" or owner of the regulator.

I believe you are using an extreme viewpoint on this issue. Also, using safety as an argument is a strawman argument.

cheers,
m

 

[M-Cameron]

Yes, unfettered “free markets” don’t work.

mmm, yes, because socalism has proven much more effective historically speaking

 

[lexvil]

mmm, yes, because socalism has proven much more effective historically speaking

Show me where socialism is practiced?

 

[M-Cameron]

M-Cameron,

Your logical fallacy starts with defining the "free market" as a market place devoid of regulation. Anarchy does not work. The modern definition of free market is not anarchy.

There will always be unscrupulous and immoral people amongst us. We need government, and no one I know is advocating for a regulatory free society or market place.

Let's use Scuba Pro as an example. My wife's regulator really was sold as a subscription or long term lease arrangement, subject to unilateral changes in policy by Scuba Pro. I don't need to go into the details of Scuba Pro's former 1 year repair policy and free parts for life offer--we all know it.

We finally ended our subscription service with Scuba Pro and started paying service techs the market rate for repairing her regulator set. It was cheaper in the long run because we did not need yearly service on her regulator set.

Regulators are relatively simple devices. And, they either work correctly or they don't. We don't need a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist to repair and tune these devices.

As @Eric Sedletzky wrote previously, the service agreements and contractual prohibition on selling parts was to support the LDS, at the expense of the "renter" or owner of the regulator.

I believe you are using an extreme viewpoint on this issue. Also, using safety as an argument is a strawman argument.

cheers,
m

come back you me when you learn what the following words actually mean:

"logical fallacy"

"free market"

"anarchy"




also, you dont need a brain surgeon to tune and service a regulator.....but you need McDonalds to serve you coffee at room temperature so you dont hurt yourself?



i am simply giving you the manufacturer perspective on the situation.....and that is, your average person is a moron, and will hurt themselves at every possible occurance, and blame you for it....

...and because of that, i have to actively take measures to 1) prevent you from doing that, and 2) find ways to reduce my liability when you do take me to court...

i care about your safety for 2 reasons, 1) im a human being....2) i dont want to get sued.....there is no straw man going on here.

 

[Pipehorse]

put together your own repair kit then and stop complaining

It wasn't a complaint as much as an observation. However, I notice that a great deal of posts in here on almost any subject (not just this one), are complaints, its just a natural part of the human condition.

or just start your own regulator company and run it however you like.

While this might be an option, its a little impractical. Like telling somebody who doesn't like traveling by commercial air (99.99% of air travelers), to buy their own Gulfstream.

as ive said before....you cannot compel someone to sell you something in a free society....that applies to service kits.

Your mistaken in this regard. There are plenty of laws that compel certain entities to provide service. Utility companies cannot withhold service for customers in their area "because they feel like it", the only time they can withhold service is for non payment. Hospitals,( though they avoid it as best they can) are required to treat individuals without insurance. Also there are plenty of laws (not withstanding the baker and gay couple wedding cake, or soup nazi on Seinfeld), that prevent entities from discriminating against customers on the basis of religion, race, gender, and/or capricious/arbitrary reasons.

 

[Pipehorse]

come back you me when you learn what the following words actually mean:

"logical fallacy"

"free market"

"anarchy"

Your post implies that you have a good command of these phrases, while the person you quoted does not. That in itself is logic fallacy. Tu Quoque. I think you are upset because the original posters definition does not jive with yours.

also, you dont need a brain surgeon to tune and service a regulator.....but you need McDonalds to serve you coffee at room temperature so you dont hurt yourself?

This is not a logical statement. It is in fact a strawman argument. You presume that McDonalds getting sued and losing for serving scalding hot coffee is not a correct outcome, however the law in the United States says otherwise. Also its a complete exaggeration, i.e. brain surgeon to tune a regulator or McDonalds serving room temperature coffee so you don't hurt yourself.

i am simply giving you the manufacturer perspective on the situation.....and that is, your average person is a moron, and will hurt themselves at every possible occurance, and blame you for it....

I have never been in the manufacturing business so I can't speak to how a manufacturer thinks. However, in this case if the manufacturers of regulators truly believe the average person is a moron, they have no business selling regulators to anybody but above average individuals. (Yeah a little impractical for the business model)

...and because of that, i have to actively take measures to 1) prevent you from doing that, and 2) find ways to reduce my liability when you do take me to court...

i care about your safety for 2 reasons, 1) im a human being....2) i dont want to get sued.....there is no straw man going on here.

You lost me here. First you speak of manufacturers but then you switch to the pronoun "I". Are you a regulator manufacturer, or are you Mitt Romney (companies are people too)? You presume companies/manufacturers can be counted upon to do the right thing, i.e. they care about customers safety more than the bottom line. There is plenty of proof to the contrary.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

The fact that Deep 6 and Poseiden have provided service kits for years without incident nullifies the pearl clutching fear mongering expressed in this thread.

 

[lowviz]

or are you Mitt Romney (companies are people too)? You presume companies/manufacturers can be counted upon to do the right thing, i.e. they care about customers safety more than the bottom line. There is plenty of proof to the contrary.

Your bias is showing.

In GBR one would say "IBM are..."
In the USA one would say "IBM is..."

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

You presume companies/manufacturers can be counted upon to do the right thing, i.e. they care about customers safety more than the bottom line. There is plenty of proof to the contrary.

Ford has the Pinto memo (https://www.spokesman.com/blogs/autos/2008/oct/17/pinto-memo-its-cheaper-let-them-burn/) where it was cheaper to pay out families than fix the problem.

Is this not a stellar example of how companies care about their customers and not profits?

I think it speaks volumes.

We could go on and on with unsafe products and poisoning of water sources and so on and so on.

 

[Manatee Diver]

@M-Cameron You don't have a very good idea of the terms, as @Pipehorse implies.

What you are describing is a laissez faire economy. The US hasn't had a laissez faire economy in at least 100 years, if it ever really had one in the first place. And I don't think one truly exists in the modern era. Even British Hong Kong, one of the freest markets in the world at the time, still had regulations.

A free market economy allows for government regulation, but still for the most part lets the economy operate. Unionization, workplace safety standards, consumer safety standards, and other regulations like right to repair are perfectly acceptable in free market economies.

And modifying or repairing any item already limits the manufacturer's liability if they can prove that your repair or modification causes the problem. In the firearms industry there have been a ton of lawsuits over modified triggers killing or injuring people, and in almost all cases the plaintiffs lose.