"Right to Repair" - Potentially great news for DIY!

[Addison Snyder]

"According to the Magnuson-Moss Act, a vehicle manufacturer cannot automatically cancel your warranty just because you’ve installed aftermarket car parts. This is an illegal practice. That said, if your aftermarket part somehow causes or contributes to a failure in your vehicle, the dealer may be able to deny your warranty claim—as long as they can prove the connection. In these cases, the burden of proof is entirely on the dealership."

That hasn't been properly enforced in decades unfortunately. "Warranty void if sticker is broken" should be illegal, and yet is rampant. The FTC needs to grow some teeth.

 

[kelemvor]

i have 0 obligation to give you any schematics or other technical info.....you are buying the product, not the IP for that product.
and i have 0 obligation to sell you anything.

That's where you're wrong. The existing laws don't spell it out clearly enough. That's why the new bill was created, to correct the misconception.

You shouldn't be required to produce spare parts. Unfortunately manufacturers like Apple, John Deere, and a few others are actively preventing other companies from selling spares to others such as you and me. Therefore the law also must force manufacturers to provide the parts.

Here's the actual situation today. John Deere. If you own a John Deere brand tractor and it breaks down. The problem is simple, and you replace the broken part yourself. If don't have access to the dealer software, the tractor will refuse to operate. The owner of a tractor cannot purchase the software, because John Deere refuses to sell the software. Therefore, you cannot repair the thing you paid several hundred thousand dollars to buy. Despite having all the necessary parts and knowledge necessary to install them. Same exact situation for Apple products, cars, etc etc.

All these companies would have to have done is to do nothing. Then people who wanted to repair their stuff would have been able to do so, those that wanted to dispose and replace would have been able to do so. The manufacturers made their own bed, now they're going to have to lie in it. Fortunately for consumers, that bed will soon include the access necessary to resume repairing their own stuff.

Lucky for you, nobody is talking about forcing anyone to repair their stuff. If you'd like to continue replacing your cell phone every time the battery is worn out then more power to you. For everyone else, we'll soon have options.

 

[markmud]

This whole thing of not selling service kits to the end consumer has more to do with supporting shops by the manufacturer then it has to do with liability for selling parts to individuals.
Scubapro for instance markets itself to dive shops as the premier professional regulator and equipment manufacturer. By those shops carrying their products they are insured that they would be selling the best gear on Earth. They will be entering into a business relationship where the shop would be awarded the title of “Authorized Dealer”and supported by the manufacturer including getting all the service work and by doing FPFL which is a guarantee for the dive shop of a continuous revenue stream. This exclusivity is very attractive for dive shops, to carry a high end product that can only be serviced by them or another “authorized” dealer, and has a time pressure incentive built in to have the unit brought in and serviced or the free parts deal ends.
It’s actually more about marketing to the dive shop than it is to the end consumer.

If it was all about safety and liability, then the manufacturer would have no problem offering service classes to the general public and selling them parts once they are factory certified. The manufacturer would actually make more money selling those classes and parts, but they won’t, and it’s because they are protecting their investment with their retailers and do not want to undermine that relationship.

There are incompetent shop techs out there and there are incompetent DIY’ers out there. If everyone was allowed to take the factory service classes there would be fewer incompetent DIY’ers, but there would still be the same amount of incompetent dive shop techs.
Think about that.

Eric, you should be awarded a prize for profoundly writing the truth about the whole SCUBA regulator service BS. That was the best post on this thread.

50% of the time, the factory trained techs who serviced our regulators, made a mistake. I had to return the factory authorized serviced regulator to the shop to get the IP fixed, second stage retuned, or to fix a leak. Or, I fixed the issue myself. Sometimes I fixed the issue on a rocking boat with tools and O-rings we scrounged-up.

My newest avocation is repairing my own regulators. I have followed the advice from some very experienced regulator service people on SB. I purchased special tools and a repair book (Regulator Savvy).

Bottom line, SCUBA regulators are based on 1970's technology. There are some cute "bells and whistles" that have been added along the way. There is nothing complicated about these devices. A person needs some basic mechanical ability (training) and the ability to follow directions in order to repair SCUBA regs.

Some have stated emphatically, that safety is the prime reason that we should have trained techs service our regs. Those people are full of themselves.

Eric's post above, is the only reason we can't get factory parts and schematics on the open market. I find my parts and schematics on the grey or black market. It is ridiculous!

cheers,
m

 

[Pipehorse]

no one is stopping you from repairing your own equipment.

Nonsense, by making repair kits unavailable to any entity but dive shop owners (not for resale) the manufacturers effectively prevent repairs by owners of equipment.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Some have stated emphatically, that safety is the prime reason that we should have trained techs service our regs. Those people are full of themselves.

Several different dive shops with their "trained techs" kept screwing up my regs. I got tired of it, and switched to Deep 6.

Remember that if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

 

[markmud]

Several different dive shops with their "trained techs" kept screwing up my regs. I got tired of it, and switched to Deep 6.

Remember that if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

The difference between a "trained tech" and me (you?) is a 4 hour seminar and a printed certificate. An 18 y.o. who has never fixed a lawn mower can be a trained tech in 4 hours, cool!

Nonsense, by making repair kits unavailable to any entity but dive shop owners (not for resale) the manufacturers effectively prevent repairs by owners of equipment.

Exactly. I would have become a DIY reg servicer except I did not know how to get the parts and special tools. I knew all along that these devices were very simple.

cheers,
m

 

[Bigbella]

This whole thing of not selling service kits to the end consumer has more to do with supporting shops by the manufacturer then it has to do with liability for selling parts to individuals.

That was quite true for a long period of time; but I do have to applaud those manufacturers who now the allow some sales of parts and service kits, from some of those very same shops who also service the brands commercially.

It is still such a far cry, from when we were cannibalizing older regulators, in the eighties and nineties, when some American distributors -- Parkway always springs to mind -- made even commercial sales to shops, a colossal pain.

We now live in a comparatively golden age of overpriced rubber bands; designer grease; and sintered filters . . .

 

[Pipehorse]

That was quite true for a long period of time; but I do have to applaud those manufacturers who now the allow some sales of parts and service kits, from some of those very same shops who also service the brands commercially.

.

To what manufacturers do you refer?

 

[Bigbella]

To what manufacturers do you refer?

Well, for starters: Poseidon, which were, historically a colossal pain in the ass, even to dealers at one time; Subaquatic; Atomic; Aqualung; Dive-Rite; Genesis; Hog / Edge; Oceanic; Aeris; Hollis; OMS; Sherwood; Dacor; and Zeagle -- both OEM and, now, aftermarket parts for many brands -- totally unavailable to the DIY consumer, less than a decade ago -- scheiß, five years ago.

Took all of five seconds to usher up the Northeast Scuba Supply catalogue . . .

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Nonsense, by making repair kits unavailable to any entity but dive shop owners (not for resale) the manufacturers effectively prevent repairs by owners of equipment.

Seems like the solution is to allow dive shops to legally sell the kits.