rEvo modifications, tweaks and customisations

[Heat Miser]

Apeks regs versus Mares regs on the revo and the new solenoid verus the old style Jaksa .... any comments

For me the new style solenoid had to be replaced (because it rusted) and I went with the old style Jaksa because for a start it looks more moisture tolerant. All About Scuba the local service agent did a great job getting me a new replacement under warranty, which I lent to a friend who had concerns about the amount of O2 coming out.

Because I still had the new style Mares regs with my new Jaksa I was concerned about reducing the rEvo terminal velocity depth due to diiferences with the regs IP (say versus Apeks) and/or CMF sizing any thoughts.?

 

[stuartv]

Micro w/factory stand
Petrel 3 and NERD 2 (Petrel as controller is my personal preference)
rMS
Short hoses
DSV, no BOV

I am 6' 1" and have a fairly large chest. XXL shirts are not loose on me.

The short hoses are plenty long enough for me. Long hoses would have my MAV dragging on the bottom even more than it (occasionally) does now.

If the valves are too high up your back, wear the unit lower. Having it too high on your back just makes it harder to breathe, anyway. Think about where the counter lungs are. The higher (in the water column) they are above your actual lungs, the hard it is to breathe. If you are perfectly flat, the CLs will be above your lungs, no matter what. But, if you are slightly head up in trim, then the lower the unit is on your back, the closer the CLs will be to being level with your actual lungs, making it easier to breathe.

rMS is awesome. If you don't get it, it's very expensive to add later. If you get it and it breaks, you can still dive the unit just the same as if you didn't have it. But, all the rMS components I have replaced (from buying older, used units) have not failed. I.e. old rMS can very definitely break. But, the current rMS parts seem to be pretty solid.

The Micro has enough CL volume for me - and, as I said, I am reasonably large, with a big chest. I also have years of experience playing low brass wind instruments that built up my breathing capacity. My opinion is that unless you are REALLY big, any feeling of need for bigger CLs than the Micro has are most likely coming from inexperience, not actual need. Additionally, on that, I note that in a serious panic situation, people are breathing very fast but not generally taking full deep breaths. So, in my opinion, that situation is not a reason why you'd want or need bigger CL volumes. As I said - just my opinion.

Fortunately, if you buy a Micro and you DO turn out to actually need more CL volume, rEvo has a spacer kit for the Micro that is very inexpensive and will expand the CL capacity to the same as a Mini.

I have a BOV. A factory, rEvo BOV. I dived it for something like 2 years. A couple of months ago, I switched back to using a standard DSV and I don't expect to switch back to the BOV. I think it is unnecessary and a complication. It definitely sounds good on paper. But, I feel like the real world has educated me that it is just not necessary. And where something is not needed, you should not take it in the water. It is an extra complication. Also, diving with it is not AS nice because the LP hose that runs to the left side of the BOV does have some effect on ease of head movement. I am back to a stock DSV with Cooper hoses and very happy with my config.

As far as I know, you cannot order a rEvo with AI transmitters. If you could, that is what I would suggest. Otherwise, ditch the SPGs when you get it, and replace them with shorter HP hoses, up to underneath the top tray, and put AI transmitters there.

I was diving my unit all last week with my AI transmitters showing O2 and Dil pressures on my NERD and a Teric on my wrist for standalone backup use, if needed, and it showing the pressures for my 2 bail out bottles I was carrying. Worked awesome. And really showed me what a pain a physical SPG is every time I carried a 3rd bottle as a stage bottle, which had no transmitter on it and I had to actually look at the SPG on it (which was on a 6" hose, sticking out the front, but still more of a pain to check than just looking at my NERD or my Teric).

I think the question of Apeks vs Mares regs is a wash. At this point, I personally would get Apeks, because I already have rEvos with Apeks and keeping everything the same seems like a good idea, to me. But, if I had no rEvo at all, I would probably take whichever was available and/or less expensive. The Mares has an advantage in being able to go deeper without making any changes at all, versus how the Apeks come from the factory. But, if you're looking at your first rEvo, I think that is seriously not something you should be factoring into your purchase decision. The Apeks can be adjusted to work deeper than how they come from the factory. At the point you are ready to go that deep, having Apeks will not hold you back.

 

[boriss]

Stuart, a lot of good information and recommendations there. Glad to hear your thoughts/recommendations about RMS, that seems to be a point of contention amongst people. I have a few specific questions for you:

I have a BOV. A factory, rEvo BOV. I dived it for something like 2 years. A couple of months ago, I switched back to using a standard DSV and I don't expect to switch back to the BOV. I think it is unnecessary and a complication. It definitely sounds good on paper. But, I feel like the real world has educated me that it is just not necessary. And where something is not needed, you should not take it in the water. It is an extra complication. Also, diving with it is not AS nice because the LP hose that runs to the left side of the BOV does have some effect on ease of head movement. I am back to a stock DSV with Cooper hoses and very happy with my config.

I'm leaning away from BOV for whatever CCR I get, because of the head movement, but more importantly, I like the idea of having a completely separate system with a separate reg necklaced around my neck. Completely isolated systems give me more of a piece of mind, but I may be overthinking things.

As far as I know, you cannot order a rEvo with AI transmitters. If you could, that is what I would suggest. Otherwise, ditch the SPGs when you get it, and replace them with shorter HP hoses, up to underneath the top tray, and put AI transmitters there.

This is one thing I love about the X-CCR... the built-in pressure sensors which display directly on the Petrel, alongside PPO2 information, labelled O2 and DIL. Saw it recently and can't unsee it. I really wish rEvo had that built-in sensors, sending information directly to the DiveCAN rather than dealing with additional batteries, potential loss in transmission with Swifts, etc.

I think the question of Apeks vs Mares regs is a wash. At this point, I personally would get Apeks, because I already have rEvos with Apeks and keeping everything the same seems like a good idea, to me. But, if I had no rEvo at all, I would probably take whichever was available and/or less expensive. The Mares has an advantage in being able to go deeper without making any changes at all, versus how the Apeks come from the factory. But, if you're looking at your first rEvo, I think that is seriously not something you should be factoring into your purchase decision. The Apeks can be adjusted to work deeper than how they come from the factory. At the point you are ready to go that deep, having Apeks will not hold you back.

Is that an option when buying new? What does it come with by default?

 

[stuartv]

Stuart, a lot of good information and recommendations there. Glad to hear your thoughts/recommendations about RMS, that seems to be a point of contention amongst people. I have a few specific questions for you:



I'm leaning away from BOV for whatever CCR I get, because of the head movement, but more importantly, I like the idea of having a completely separate system with a separate reg necklaced around my neck. Completely isolated systems give me more of a piece of mind, but I may be overthinking things.



This is one thing I love about the X-CCR... the built-in pressure sensors which display directly on the Petrel, alongside PPO2 information, labelled O2 and DIL. Saw it recently and can't unsee it. I really wish rEvo had that built-in sensors, sending information directly to the DiveCAN rather than dealing with additional batteries, potential loss in transmission with Swifts, etc.



Is that an option when buying new? What does it come with by default?

Even with the BOV, I still dived with an independent BO reg on a necklace. The BOV was just there to hold me for a breath or two if I needed it, while I switched over to the independent BO reg.

That is a cool feature of the X. But, in practice, it doesn't really make much difference to me, versus seeing the pressures on my NERD via AI. As long as whatever the tech is works, I'm not too fussed about whether it's AI or built-in pressure sensors. Especially considering that continuous monitoring of dil and O2 is not nearly as important on CCR as is monitoring gas on OC. And, for the record, my AI on my rEvo has been totally reliable. In other words, that particular feature of the X would not be a significant factor for ME in a purchase decision.

When you buy a rEvo, one of the first steps in setting it up is to do a CMF test and adjust the IP on the O2 first stage to match your metabolism. So, I think the typical setup from the factory, with an Apeks first stage will give you a result of something like a max of 280 feet of depth before you have to be concerned with making changes or otherwise managing your O2 at depth. I don't know what the standard setup gives if you order a unit with the Mares regs.

 

[Mergulhador do Delray]

Thanks, Stuart.

I will think about the long hoses and the CLs a bit more. I am 6 foot on the dot. Weigh (unfortunately) about 235.

I do have to get over the decision paralysis, though. My (self-imposed) order date is approaching.

 

[lermontov]

ut, I feel like the real world has educated me that it is just not necessary. And where something is not needed, you should not take it in the water. It is an extra complication

Im wondering if youve ever had a CO2 hit - if so where you successful in removing your loop and putting in your 2nd stage -ive spoken to people who have had one and they told me they its virtually impossible to remove it through fear of drowning - normally id discount such stories but the ones i have spoke to are VERY experienced mod 3 divers and I have to acknowledge id be no different

 

[mr_v]

Thanks, Stuart.

I will think about the long hoses and the CLs a bit more. I am 6 foot on the dot. Weigh (unfortunately) about 235.

I do have to get over the decision paralysis, though. My (self-imposed) order date is approaching.

Lots of things depend on your physique, not just weight or height, e.g., your overall thickness in the shoulder/trapezius/chest area. Standard hose length was too short for me - it was just a tad uncomfortable to look at the gauges. I am 6', 235lbs.

I went with long hoses. They fit perfectly when attached to the lower d-rings. There is little to no slack. I disconnect them to look at the gauges, but I can easily see the pressure and that's what counts.

If you're that particular about hose length, check out Tecme.de (Tec Equipment für Nitrox, Rebreather Höhlen Tauchen). You can order various stock lengths or go custom.

 

[Heat Miser]

I think the question of Apeks vs Mares regs is a wash. At this point, I personally would get Apeks, because I already have rEvos with Apeks and keeping everything the same seems like a good idea, to me. But, if I had no rEvo at all, I would probably take whichever was available and/or less expensive. The Mares has an advantage in being able to go deeper without making any changes at all, versus how the Apeks come from the factory. But, if you're looking at your first rEvo, I think that is seriously not something you should be factoring into your purchase decision. The Apeks can be adjusted to work deeper than how they come from the factory. At the point you are ready to go that deep, having Apeks will not hold you back.

Hi Stuart, Can you explain this. (I haven't done MOD 3 yet) Someone suggested it was a combination of the Mares regs and the new style solenoid, i.e. not the Jacksa style, that lets you go deeper with the Mares regs. And that by changing the solenoid i had depth limited the unit? Is there any difference between the IP on Apeks and Mares?

 

[Wibble]

AIUI the Mares regs were part of the Mares takeover of Revo.

Mine's a 2018 Revo Mini with Apeks regs and the oxygen IP is set to 11.65 bar, so limited to around 85m/280ft. (Assume 2 bar differential pressure required for orifice to work) The oxygen MAV should work down to, say, 100m (11 bar/ATA)


BOV rationale:
Originally decided not to go for a BOV due to the expense and additional "faffing around".

Mind was changed after an incident leading to a full bailout related to not closing the loop following a face first fall off the boat into the water. Bottom line was I should have bailed out and back on to the loop but didn't because I was too lazy.

From the aftermath, where I flooded the unit, I was "made aware" of getting a CO2 hit and not being able switch from the loop to the bailout regulator. As I'm now doing deeper dives, a BOV became more desirable. Also, as I've more experience diving the unit, the additional workload of a BOV isn't a problem.

I bought a complete new loop with Revo BOV at around $1k.


Implementation of the BOV:
The BOV regulator hose is terminated with a female QC6 which is fed around the hose (using the Revo loop wrappers), through a small bungee loop on the frame handle (to keep it in place and stop it pulling), down the front of the unit in front of the wing, through a small bungee loop though the wing grommets, and comes out at the bottom.

When I climb into the unit and put the waist belt on, I grab the BOV LP hose and bring it forwards on my LHS. When the bailout cylinder's attached I connect the QC6s and breathe from the BOV for a couple of breaths. The BOV hose is never an encumbrance, the QC6s are easy to use even when under pressure.

In use the BOV is really simple. So simple that there's really no effort whatsoever in using it. Oh, except for massively diluting the loop if you're at 6m/20ft and bored after a deeper dive with a hypoxic bailout mix.

The Revo BOV is very easy to use and breathes very well underwater, even at depth (tested around 70m/230ft)

 

[stuartv]

Im wondering if youve ever had a CO2 hit - if so where you successful in removing your loop and putting in your 2nd stage -ive spoken to people who have had one and they told me they its virtually impossible to remove it through fear of drowning - normally id discount such stories but the ones i have spoke to are VERY experienced mod 3 divers and I have to acknowledge id be no different

I have not had one.

I also "talked" to people who said the same thing you have heard. That is why I added a BOV to my rEvo in the past.

More recently, I have been diving with some different very experienced MOD3 CCR divers, including at least two CCR instructors and 2 CCR instructor trainers. None of them use or recommend a BOV.

The gist of the why is that getting a CO2 hit happens for one of two reasons that both boil down to stupidity. You either didn't pack your scrubber/build your unit correctly, or you did not pay attention to the signs and symptoms and you worked yourself into one.

Either way, it's akin to an OC diver running out of gas. There's just no excuse for that. Whether you are getting a hit because you left out an O-ring in your build, packed your scrubber poorly, or simply worked too hard, you should be able to recognize the hit coming well early enough to switch to bail out. If you let it get to the point that you are breathing so hard you CAN'T switch, then you are like the OC diver who knew they were getting low on air, but kept going until they actually ran out.

So, again, I'm not saying having a BOV is bad. I'm not saying you should NOT have one. I'm just saying that I have concluded that one is not necessary (for me - to dive safely), and I don't like the downsides to having one, minor as they might be.

Lots of things depend on your physique, not just weight or height, e.g., your overall thickness in the shoulder/trapezius/chest area. Standard hose length was too short for me - it was just a tad uncomfortable to look at the gauges. I am 6', 235lbs.

I went with long hoses. They fit perfectly when attached to the lower d-rings. There is little to no slack. I disconnect them to look at the gauges, but I can easily see the pressure and that's what counts.

If you're that particular about hose length, check out Tecme.de (Tec Equipment für Nitrox, Rebreather Höhlen Tauchen). You can order various stock lengths or go custom.

I could be mistaken, but I believe the long hose kit/option for rEvo is only the hoses to the MAV. Nothing to do with the hoses to the SPGs. So, the long hose option would have no bearing on your ability to see your gauges.

Hi Stuart, Can you explain this. (I haven't done MOD 3 yet) Someone suggested it was a combination of the Mares regs and the new style solenoid, i.e. not the Jacksa style, that lets you go deeper with the Mares regs. And that by changing the solenoid i had depth limited the unit? Is there any difference between the IP on Apeks and Mares?

I am not educated on a new style solenoid that (you imply?) is specific to Mares. All 3 rEvos I own/have owned have had Apeks regs. My current primary unit had an older solenoid and rMS board that used non-waterproof connectors. The rMS board went out, so I changed it and the solenoid at the same time, to the newer type that has waterproof connectors. That is the only difference in solenoids that I know about (non-WP vs WP connectors).

What I have been told by the factory:

The Apeks O2 reg IP is only stable up to 12 bar. That will get you to 100m. You CAN get a stiffer spring for the Apeks that will allow you run a higher IP. I don't have #s for that, though. I do HAVE the stiffer spring, but I have not had a need to install it yet.

The Mares O2 reg supports a higher IP. I'm not sure what its max is, but I know it is AT LEAST 13.5 bar. For some reason, I believe they call the Mares reg the 25CCR and I *think* it might be spec'ed as stable to 25 bar for IP - but I am REALLY not sure about that.

I have the IP on my Apeks O2 reg turned up to just under 12 bar. I have taken my unit to a little past 100m with no issues and no need to make changes or use offboard O2.