Regulator sourcing discussion

[Six2Life]

so i see that servicing your own equipment is a big thing for the hogs.

I have heard that SOOOOOOOO many times; that this is one of the key factors for buying the hog.

I wonder how many people actually service their own?

- sorry but $800 investment doesn't seem to cheap to me or even an option for the average rec diver.

how many services does that equal if you had a shop do it?

for me- $100-120 bucks every two years for services - equals to 14-16 years of diving to get return in that investment!

For the most part it's not about money. It's about not letting a F'tard have their mitts on something you use to breathe underwater.

 

[Paladin]

What $800? I have serviced my regs for years and all that is required are tools most people already have in their garage. $120 for reg service? That's twice what my LDS charges for service on a complete reg set.

I service my own because I know it's done right.

Just keep trying to convince yourself that you didn't spend way too much money on a regulator. Just don't try to convince me 'cause it won't work.

 

[cerich]

you're missing the point, it isn't about divers saving money by servicing their own gear, it's about treating technical divers as adults and if they are interested in doing so making it possible and supporting them.

As a technical instructor since 1995 I KNOW that being a competent reg tech has made me a better tech diver and instr. I teach people to be able to dive in expedition and exploration fashion as a technical instructor. i teach them to dive with significant decompression obligations in overhead environments and expect them to be able to learn the theory and techniques and hope they have the judgment necessary to survive. yet somehow when they express a interest in fixing their own gear our reaction has been "that's life support and you're too stupid" That is complete and utter BS. I can make them better tech divers and incidentally make more money by teaching them what they want to learn than treating them like idiots with a wallet. I believe this, so much so that when in a position to change the paradigm I decided to do so, fully knowing that people in the industry were gonna hate my guts for it. so be it, it is quite simply only the right thing to do.

Most of the negative crap thrown at EDGE and HOG have been centered around price and the perceived "cheap" aspect, if you get caught up in that you will ALWAYS miss the point of what I am doing here.

I pay as much or more for my regs than the majors, I just don't pay reps and magazines a fortune every month. When I was a rep for a major brand they were sending me over 6 figures a year, there were 8 reps. A full page ad in the glossy scuba rags can cost 10k a month. The majors have as much or more overhead in their regulators in non R&D, non production costs as they do in the cost of materials. I don't, this allows me to still have a quality product at a value price.

so i see that servicing your own equipment is a big thing for the hogs.

I have heard that SOOOOOOOO many times; that this is one of the key factors for buying the hog.

I wonder how many people actually service their own?

- sorry but $800 investment doesn't seem to cheap to me or even an option for the average rec diver.

how many services does that equal if you had a shop do it?

for me- $100-120 bucks every two years for services - equals to 14-16 years of diving to get return in that investment!

 

[ScubaSteve]

For the most part it's not about money. It's about not letting a F'tard have their mitts on something you use to breathe underwater.

I stated earlier that I had issues with my last set of regs (AquaLung). At the time, I had 3 shops within 2.5 hours driving that could service them. All three of them ****ed up their service. They guaranteed me when I breathed off them at the shop that they were fixed and it was found out within a couple dives that they were not fixed. This happened with all three shops. I did not write off the brand (because I agree that AL makes some great gear) but I sure as hell wrote off the idiots that guaranteed me they were serviced and would function fine. I originally got into the HOG because I was told I could service them myself. After buying them, I found out that in fact I could not because I did not hold a Tech certification needed to take the service course. This upset me at first but I have found a shop that I trust that services and sells HOG so I figure I still have a damn good regulator, am paying no more for service than any other brand, and saved several hundreds of dollars on each set up that I have so I am still ahead.

And as was stated.....for anybody that has several sets of regs, the cost of servicing (or the savings from being able to service yourself) can be huge.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

And for you I would say that's a wise choice. But the class and option to do that was not intended for the average recreational diver with one reg. And is still not. It was created in response to demand from those of us who have more than one. And for many the number is four or more. I would say that the majority of people who have asked me about when I am going to offer a class have a set of doubles regs, two stage set ups, and a separate singles reg for when they need it. At what other shops around me charge by the stage in the area of 25-35 per labor that's as much as 300 a year plus parts in some cases. And many dequire yearly service. I have 12 regs now including student rental regs. I need regs I can do myself and not have to.scrounge, beg, or plead for parts.
Others just want to do things for themselves and would anyway. So why not allow them to and offer genuine parts.
Some.have had bad tech experiences.
And for those in remote areas an lds may be hours away.
And I won't even mention expedition diving or travel where the lds may be days away.
For those who fell into these areas there was a real and genuine need. That need has now been openly addressed and met.

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[KJSmith84]

here is a question thou-

how many tech divers are there compared to rec divers?

how many service their own gear?



I understand the whole doing it your self thing but i personally would rather have someone i trust do it and just taking it to some joe blow to do it.

and i understand if you own 3+ reg setups it might be cheaper to service them yourself but the average diver doesn't own that many.


I guess one day i will have to try a hog if i ever come across one; just seems like some members here that rep of for hog or dive hog regs do the biz(hog) more harm than good.

 

[cerich]

I agree, that is why the HOG repair class is for tech divers. I recommend that recreational divers bring/send their gear to a shop for service.

here is a question thou-

how many tech divers are there compared to rec divers?

how many service their own gear?



I understand the whole doing it your self thing but i personally would rather have someone i trust do it and just taking it to some joe blow to do it.

and i understand if you own 3+ reg setups it might be cheaper to service them yourself but the average diver doesn't own that many.

 

[redacted]

so i see that servicing your own equipment is a big thing for the hogs.

I have heard that SOOOOOOOO many times; that this is one of the key factors for buying the hog.

I wonder how many people actually service their own?

- sorry but $800 investment doesn't seem to cheap to me or even an option for the average rec diver.

how many services does that equal if you had a shop do it?

for me- $100-120 bucks every two years for services - equals to 14-16 years of diving to get return in that investment!

For the most part it's not about money. It's about not letting a F'tard have their mitts on something you use to breathe underwater.

For me, it is also the $$$. It is not that I save much with DIY, but I get to spend it differently.

First off, you probably should plan on spending about $200 to have a shop do a good service of your regs, including parts and S&H.

And you can get started for quite a bit less than $800.

BUT, it is probably not going to save you any $$$. I probably spent about $200 for a book and initial tools (it did not take much more than I already had for cars and stuff) and the first batch of parts. What I quickly found was that my regs went much more than a year or two between servicing. But I still spent much more than $800 in the first couple years stocking up on service parts when the price was right and buying more regs ($30 per stage plus $5 to $20 for parts). While I strongly recommend a backup regulator as the best way to prevent regulator problems from having a negative impact on an enjoyable dive trip, a single rig, well cared for and competently serviced when needed will suffice if you are not interested in DIY. Even now, 15 years since starting, DIY does not save me $$$. But, rather than spending it at some dive shop for labor, I see a good buy on another BP/W or even another regulator I don't need but can't live without.

If you are not interested in DIY, then don't do it - you probably won't do it very well anyway.

If DIY does appeal to you, don't expect it to save $$$$. Do expect to actually spend more $$$ on gear as the bug takes hold.

 

[KJSmith84]

For me, it is also the $$$. It is not that I save much with DIY, but I get to spend it differently.

First off, you probably should plan on spending about $200 to have a shop do a good service of your regs, including parts and S&H.

And you can get started for quite a bit less than $800.

BUT, it is probably not going to save you any $$$. I probably spent about $200 for a book and initial tools (it did not take much more than I already had for cars and stuff) and the first batch of parts. What I quickly found was that my regs went much more than a year or two between servicing. But I still spent much more than $800 in the first couple years stocking up on service parts when the price was right and buying more regs ($30 per stage plus $5 to $20 for parts). While I strongly recommend a backup regulator as the best way to prevent regulator problems from having a negative impact on an enjoyable dive trip, a single rig, well cared for and competently serviced when needed will suffice if you are not interested in DIY. Even now, 15 years since starting, DIY does not save me $$$. But, rather than spending it at some dive shop for labor, I see a good buy on another BP/W or even another regulator I don't need but can't live without.

If you are not interested in DIY, then don't do it - you probably won't do it very well anyway.

If DIY does appeal to you, don't expect it to save $$$$. Do expect to actually spend more $$$ on gear as the bug takes hold.

diy is not the issue- i have a machinist background and im sure i wouldnt have an issue with a regulator rebuilt.

I was just trying to point out a lot of hog users here on this board are quick to say that you can rebuild them yourself; when a neebie post a new thread and is looking for his/her first reg ???? and yes i was one that this was sales pitched to me.
as well as reading alot of drama some of the hog users added daily hear. almost didn't want to affiliate myself and have something in common. Im weird like that. Im big customer service and professionalism when i comes to sales.


so again i can see the benefit of it rebuilding it yourself but I am guessing its not for 95% of divers out there?


like i stated above- just seems like some members here that rep of for hog or dive hog regs do the biz(hog) more harm than good. maybe something they should look into.


I have a background of owning a few large forums and dealing with tons of vendors/members daily so i can understand most of the forum antics.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The other thing that savings and knowledge, along with other resources, allows me to do is expand. I've added rental gear-including a limited number of tanks for recreational and entry level tech courses, a dedicated service area, and next is a different classroom area. That is on the project list for this winter. So like others it doesn't actually save me money. Any savings is being reinvested to better serve those who utilize my operation. But without it I'd just be some guy paying others for what I need. Instead of growing in the scope of services I can offer.

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