Reg Configuration - Thoughts?

[tbone1004]

do you believe that this regulator configuration is better or ideal? What is stopping you from putting your primary on your longer secondary hose and using primary donate?

 

[WrmBluH2O]

As nobody (apart from DumpsterDiver) seems to think this is a good idea, I will revert to clipping my octo off with a plastic octo holder or magnetic holder to either the waist or shoulder D rings which will put it into a similar position to the recreational standard position and in the triangle.

DO NOT.. I repeat do NOT send me a cashiers check for $10,000.

 

[markmud]

Just looking for thoughts regarding my proposed reg set up.

Rather than diving with a jacket BCD where the octo hose is often stuffed into a pocket or on a retainer of some sort, I am diving with a BP&W so no pockets.

My thoughts are to use standard hose lengths for primary and octo (with OOA procedure being donated octo) but having the octo on a bungee round my neck (not a zip tied one but a looser one with fishermen's knots on them so a good tug and it frees without any issues).

My reasoning:
1) The octo is still within the "triangle".
2) More readily available than hanging off a D ring lower down.
3) More streamlined although the longer secondary hose will be loose.
4) More familiar to most divers than long hose/short secondary.
5) Octo is kept well clear of the dirt no matter how close I get to the bottom (unless I faceplant for some reason)

Would you be happy diving with it on a buddy?

Hi Neilwood,

2airishuman has good advice in my opinion. Follow convention.

You do have options as their are three different conventions that I know of. See TBone's posted video on page 4, which is a slightly different configuration from the system that I needed for my tec 40 class.

I like the tec 40 standard for a recreational rig. It uses a 5 ft. hose for my primary reg and a necklaced octo reg. The primary 5 ft. hose is hog-looped around my neck. After practicing reg donation in my tec 40 class, I am sold on this configuration.

Whenever I am forced to insta-buddy, or offer to insta-buddy, I give my insta-buddy a briefing that explains my rig. I explain reg donationa. I point out that my back mounted pony is off. If I am slinging instead of back mounting a pony, I explain that the sling rig is off. They may take my pony reg, but we need to turn the gas on before they can have gas.

I also scold them on grabbing stuff from my face! Grabbing stuff of my face is an offensive assault. We will sort out their gas problem and make a controlled ascent to the surface, but the incident won't end there. A serious tongue-lashing will ensue once we are both safely situated on the boat.

A good buddy should be close enough that a primary system failure can me mitigated before panic sets in.

To iterate, find a conventional set-up that suits your needs and stick to it. Your buddy will be grateful if an emergency situation occurs and he/she defaults to their training.

markm

 

[cneal]

There is a reason for the recreational configuration. If a diver is doing a sweep as trained for a dropped regulator, on every sweep that big yellow octopus is inches away from his eyes. I had nearly three hundred dives before I had to share air with another diver. I found my octopus doing a sweep on my first training dive.

 

[tbone1004]

what? that makes no sense for the recreational configuration, but does prove our point of primary donate with secondary on a necklace. Two fold, a. there is nothing to drop because one is in your mouth, and the other is around your neck, and b. if you do drop your primary for some reason, your octo is literally right there when you look down and if adjusted properly can actually be grabbed with no hands.... I have yet to see an argument for the secondary donate and the golden triangle that holds water when compared to primary donate

 

[rhwestfall]

@cneal

your "sweep to find octo" means it's dangling. no, no, no, no....... primary dropped? okay, sweep to find.... octo is clipped/secured in some manner.

 

[Belzelbub]

I have yet to see an argument for the secondary donate and the golden triangle that holds water when compared to primary donate

Nor have I.

I actually got my OW training using two different methods. As I got two OW certs. Lapse between cert 1 and diving was too long for my liking, so I got cert 2.

Anyway. My original OW cert (PADI, 1990) taught the golden triangle method. Made sense to me at the time, but I knew no other way.

For my second cert (YMCA, 1996), the instructor used a modified Hog setup. Primary was on a longer hose (not 7', though), and the reasoning made a lot of sense to me. If I'm diving with a panicked diver that is OOA, the reg in my mouth is likely going to be the first place they look. Been diving that way ever since.

I've streamlined a bit and use an Octo-Z, so I still keep with the primary donate.

 

[Diving Dubai]

@Neilwood

Ignoring some of the comments on here... I use a rubber necklace which holds my Octo around my neck. Although both my second stages are the same I have a yellow cover on my octo and a yellow hose.

No matter what I might brief to a unfamiliar buddy) if their out of air they will grab which ever one they want. It doesn't bother me they can have my secondary, my primary whatever. I can deal with it

Most people are taught in OW and while others can debate whether its right or wrong to take the secondary but a panic diver is unpredictable so I feel its better to be prepared for anything myself. I will tell them of course that I'll give them the primary if they're in need as a starter. I'll also tell them I'll give them my redundant to surface on if needs must.

The convention is that anyone with a reg bungeed to their neck is practicing primary donate. I would think that some people might find your approach novel and confusing.

With the greatest respect I disagree. It may well be for the minority of divers (in the real world) who understand this concept but for the majority of divers out there they don't understand nor do they care

Yes certain organisations train this method from the start, others train it at a more advanced level but just because it's popular on SB or your club never assume it is popular in the real world.

 

[Neilwood]

do you believe that this regulator configuration is better or ideal? What is stopping you from putting your primary on your longer secondary hose and using primary donate?

The only difference between your suggestion of swapping the primary onto the longer hose and my suggestion is only about 1 ft of additional hose on my secondary.

What I had suggested originally was (and I agree with peoples comments on this) a compromise between the primary donate and secondary donate in that no matter which reg was donated or grabbed (as certain people suggested might happen in real life) I could have coped with it as the other reg was instantly available.

Whether primary donate is a better or worse system depends a lot on your diving buddies. Primary donate, in my limited experience and despite what I have seen within this forum, is not as common in the real world where most people are not of a technical diving mindset (or even willing to analyse their own diving ), have been trained with secondary donate (and the "golden trianlge") and have probably not ever seen primary donate either demonstrated or used (and thus probably more apt for confusion if there is an OOA situation). If we are completely truthful, a lot of "weekend warriors" or holiday divers have probably forgotten how to even do a secondary donate as per their original training (with the correct positioning etc)!

 

[uncfnp]

Obviously you should use the configuration you feel most comfortable with. They all seem to have a pretty good track record.

But to your concern that primary donate is not the norm for recreational divers, that's true. I do think it is becoming more common as the lines between rec and tech blur. And the popularity of in line seconds have probably contributed to this as well. I recently had my first true instabuddy experience. He was an experienced diver but far from tech and had the stand rig. We were gearing up, he glanced at my gear and commented on the unusual rig. I spent about two seconds, basically took the primary from my mouth and reach toward him and said, "take this if you need air." He nodded and we splashed.

Take a look at my photo again and add in a yellow purge cover. How could any diver miss this, unlike a second hanging loose, in a pocket or otherwise out of direct line of sight? If coming to me calmly and signals, I just reach up, hand it to him or her, reach under my chin for my backup, and up we go. If panicked, they would actually have to reach past my obvious yellow reg for my bungeed second. Unlikely but if they do, it will just pull loose. It will be short but doable until they calm down and can switch.

FWIW, my partner was very resistent to the idea of primary donate for his personal gear as well. At that time he had an in line alternate but still had the standard hose on primary. When he saw my primary donate setup, he like it so much he switched to primary donate with the in line alternate but after about two trips together he changed to the bungeed back up as well. Now he dives an almost identical rig to mine. I am still trying to find him a yellow purge cover.