Red Sea Liveaboard Sinking

[scubaozy]

So I guess it's a matter of not caring rather than not knowing how to perform stability calcs.

Hmm, you could be right, but again, I bet you paid enough for your boat to care.

 

[Wookie]

Hmm, you could be right, but again, I bet you paid enough for your boat to care.

As it was a US boat, it wasnt carrying passengers without the calcs done.

The Coast Guard sees to that.

 

[DandyDon]

There could also be some of the tanks placed incorrectly, too high too low, too empty too full etc. If there is a big tank at the entire width of the ship, it will probably throw all the CoG off when fluid (fuel or fresh water) move within the tank.

Surely the fuel and water tanks would be below passenger and crew quarters, low in the boat, and have a reduced effect on the listing, but if they didn't have baffles and weren't full, sloshing could be a problem. I'd still be leery of an all-inclusive boat charging $70/day for transportation, food & wine, diving, and all. That "show must go on" attitude the group must have felt after all of the planning and traveling left them too open to accepting a lot of safety shortcomings before the boat left the dock I think. Then it was too late to get off.

 

[scubadada]

I've been thinking about this. I've never been on a liveaboard, but how would you choose? Except for online reviews...

Good question.

Do the best, most extensive research you can. This is easier when a boat has been in service for some time. I have only spent 10 weeks on liveaboards. Through 2018. I dived mostly with a very well known large operator who I mainly trusted to be safe.

All of the reviews I have written since the 2019 Conception disaster and the fire and sinking of the Red Sea Aggressor I have included a relatively detailed section on safety to help other divers in their choice.

As an example, from my review of the Nautilus Explorer to the Revillagigedos:

The safety briefing was very complete. Alarms, emergency lighting and all exits were pointed out. The main exit from the lower level was toward the stern, up a wide stairway, onto the dive deck, outside of the salon. The emergency exit was next to my room, up a ladder, through a hatch, into the dining room. After the briefing, with permission, I tried out the emergency exit and found the climb and hatch to work well. Ahead of time, I decided to use the main exit, unless it was unavailable to me. There was a full practice evacuation drill with gathering of everyone at the muster station on the dive deck and donning of PFDs. Several guests had to redo their PFD, until they had it right. One day, during the trip, the crew held a timed fire drill, without guest participation, in which they put on full firefighting dress and deployed hoses and other gear. I was told they perform the drill on each trip. Charging was only allowed in the cabins when you were present. I did not fully appreciate all of the safety measures until several months later.

 

[BoltSnap]

Good question.

Do the best, most extensive research you can. This is easier when a boat has been in service for some time. I have only spent 10 weeks on liveaboards. Through 2018. I dived mostly with a very well known large operator who I mainly trusted to be safe.

All of the reviews I have written since the 2019 Conception disaster and the fire and sinking of the Red Sea Aggressor I have included a relatively detailed section on safety to help other divers in their choice.

As an example, from my review of the Nautilus Explorer to the Revillagigedos:

The safety briefing was very complete. Alarms, emergency lighting and all exits were pointed out. The main exit from the lower level was toward the stern, up a wide stairway, onto the dive deck, outside of the salon. The emergency exit was next to my room, up a ladder, through a hatch, into the dining room. After the briefing, with permission, I tried out the emergency exit and found the climb and hatch to work well. Ahead of time, I decided to use the main exit, unless it was unavailable to me. There was a full practice evacuation drill with gathering of everyone at the muster station on the dive deck and donning of PFDs. Several guests had to redo their PFD, until they had it right. One day, during the trip, the crew held a timed fire drill, without guest participation, in which they put on full firefighting dress and deployed hoses and other gear. I was told they perform the drill on each trip. Charging was only allowed in the cabins when you were present. I did not fully appreciate all of the safety measures until several months later.

In addition to what @scubadada said, here in the Middle East especially Egypt, don't take anybody's word for it. Check/test everything with your own eyeball, if they object, and they will, the heck with them. People in the ME will object to your "not trusting them" but that's their problem not yours. Be polite but firm.

When you find a Liveaboard price "cheap," ask and question why their prices are cheap. I prefer to go in a 5 star boat in third world countries (with background check also) than anything else. Egypt is a very "hit and miss" place and you will get screwed if you don't know what you are doing or put your trust in them. EVERYONE in the middle east knows exactly what I am talking about, to say anything else is a big lie and hypocritical. In Egypt, you can find the best artists/engineers/doctors/etc. in the universe but you can also find the worst crooks too. If they get the opportunity, they will do their best to screw you to no end. Your difficulty it telling who is who.

 

[wgw04024]

Everything I know about Egypt I learned from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. And that wasn't very flattering for them...

Seriously though, All these accidents really make me question going on a LOB at all.

As far as the 'trauma' of the accident. If you're scuba diving around the world, in lesser developed regions, you better mentally be prepared for some occasional bumps in the road.

 

[DandyDon]

Seriously though, All these accidents really make me question going on a LOB at all.

Most of our original ancestors in the western hemisphere spent longer on worse.

 

[JustSurfaceInterval]

All these accidents

In fact, very few for the number of LOBs around the world every day...
And also be aware that as a participant to this board, and thanks to @DandyDon , you may be more aware of these accidents than the rest of the population.
On the other hand, as a participant of this board, you can rely on kownledge and experience from others to avoid mistakes.
Saying that, the reviews of the Carlton Fleet were all quite positive, until that day...

 

[wgw04024]

In fact, very few for the number of LOBs around the world every day...
And also be aware that as a participant to this board, and thanks to @DandyDon , you may be more aware of these accidents than the rest of the population.
On the other hand, as a participant of this board, you can rely on kownledge and experience from others to avoid mistakes.
Saying that, the reviews of the Carlton Fleet were all quite positive, until that day...

All very good points that I do agree with. I guess once I get out of the United States (and i remember what happened in california) I just wonder about who the captains are. I know, it's bias.

Perhaps part of this comes from owning boats, knowing people who skirt the system to get the 100 Ton license, etc. Don't even get started on all the pleasure boaters who have no clue to the basics of seamanship.

 

[Living4Experiences]

I really feel bad for the victims of this tragedy and the losses they incurred. I can't help but wonder, though, why didn't anyone refuse to get on that boat or stay on that boat once they saw the problems? Or start raising hell to the captain and staff about what was going on. (Can I say "hell" on SB? The mods can edit if needed.) Looking at the climate of the liveaboard industry, it's a bit scary with all the boats that have been sinking lately, and it really reinforces the burden on the passenger to do your due diligence before making that reservation, giving them all your money upfront with no refunds, and fly around the world to get on the boat.