That's not cold.....Hell, at 55 degrees, I'm contemplating just my shorty and no gloves....
Oh, this is going to be good
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That's not cold.....Hell, at 55 degrees, I'm contemplating just my shorty and no gloves....
OP
If you took you FIRST stage apart you would know what I was referring to as far as the clean issue goes.
Secondly, Diaphragm regs are also better breathers at depth.
Just one more thing: do you really want salt water or silty fresh water coming into contact with a major internal working component of your first stage???
JeffAustin
Guest
Just curious, what does the inside of a sealed first stage look like if it starts to leak, and you don't catch it for a month or so, because you thought you had a SEALED unit??
OP
I dont know exactly what you mean... For instance, if an Apeks first stage had a tear in the environmental seal, the water would get in and just come into contact with the spring and the main regulator diaphragm, but not doing any damage at all.
They dont leak unless there is a hole in the environmental seal, which is basically a diaphragm. You should check your gear before every dive, unless its a very small hole, you will be able to see a tear or gouge in the silicone diaphragm.
My issue with a piston first stage is that you have the water that you are diving in coming into contact, and surrounding the piston and inside the piston chamber, also touching the piston oring. And the spring as well. If this is cold water or contaminated water or muddy/silty water, this could affect the performance of a piston first stage. Where as a diaphragm has some degree of protection from this sort of thing, and an environmentally sealed diaphragm would be completely protected.
Does that answer your question???
JeffAustin
Guest
Not really. If the seal leaks, and you don't know it, the saltwater would not be flushed out of the regulator when it was cleaned, it would stay in there and start to corrode things, right?? I have trouble being confident with the seal on the Apeks, it doesn't have any o-rings, just that flexible disc. I'm not trashing Apeks, I have two of 'em, but I think the "sealed system" is hype. I feel more confident with an open system that I flush out at the end of the day.
Verbshark
Registered
The machine gun, at least.
Take it apart? You mean all that talk about diaphragm regs being cleaner than pistons was about the <b>insides</b>.
Oh.
Wow.
Is my face red.
I guess I have to be far more literal for some people. To rephrase, during cleaning of the INTERNALS of my regs and others, I have seen no evidence of the presumed cleanliness advantage of diaphragm regs. YMMV.
I think water in contact with a working component is preferable to fatigue failure, which is more likely with a diaphragm.
Take it apart? You mean all that talk about diaphragm regs being cleaner than pistons was about the <b>insides</b>.
Oh.
Wow.
Is my face red.
I guess I have to be far more literal for some people. To rephrase, during cleaning of the INTERNALS of my regs and others, I have seen no evidence of the presumed cleanliness advantage of diaphragm regs. YMMV.
I think water in contact with a working component is preferable to fatigue failure, which is more likely with a diaphragm.
OP
Well, i have two apeks ATX-200 and the insides of them look as new as the day I got them. No corrosion, and there has never been any salt water in them ever. I am confident with the seal on my APeks. I have done a few wreck dives with them, and some quarry diving with them. No problems with "leakage". I am very careful to protect the seal from being damaged by turning the first stages on their sides when I use them with doubles. I had a TX-100 before my 200's, and I had that for about a year and then Ive had the 200's for almost two years now, and have never had a problem with the seal failing... almost 250 dives on those regs.
As far as piston vs diaphragm cleanliness issue... I have taken apart a scubapro piston and a sherwood piston, and had blue corrosion from salt water all over the piston o-ring and the cap and orifice. No such thing in a diaphragm reg. No salt water gets beyond the diaphragm. The ONLY thing that salt water touches is the spring. I dont care how much you rinse your piston reg off, salt water still goes inside the first stage. Doesn't with a diaphragm. Thats what I am saying...
As far as piston vs diaphragm cleanliness issue... I have taken apart a scubapro piston and a sherwood piston, and had blue corrosion from salt water all over the piston o-ring and the cap and orifice. No such thing in a diaphragm reg. No salt water gets beyond the diaphragm. The ONLY thing that salt water touches is the spring. I dont care how much you rinse your piston reg off, salt water still goes inside the first stage. Doesn't with a diaphragm. Thats what I am saying...
mmakay
Contributor
Do you have any proof of this? Can you explane why it would be true?
What Sherwood was that? Sherwood has incorporated its dry air bleed system into its line of piston regulators. No water enters since it is held out by a small stream of positive air pressure.
Our rental Sherwoods stay as clean as the day we took them out of the box unless someone rinses them with the dustcap off - something that has nothing to do with piston vs diaphragm.
OP
Ya know, you are right, I dont know what i was thinking... SHerwoods do stay protected from the water...
I think it was just the scubapro and another piston reg, maybe an old dacor piston or something... Thanks for pointing that out...
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