New BC or more dives?

[NitroxSam]

Buoyancy control is a skill and can be improved in any kit. But it seems to come with experience, meaning definitely do more diving. Also, i personally think streamlining makes everything, including buoyancy control easier. That was the big attraction to the BP/W for me: streamlining, but a domino effect of positive improvements happened after I switched. Air consumption got better, trim and buoyancy control improved almost immediately for me. Now 23+ years on I can't imagine diving any other way. I would make the investment, then mindfully dive dive dive.

 

[cgblake]

See about borrowing a back inflate BCD or BPW for a dive or two, before spending money on a BCD at all. If you like how the feel compared to the jacket, it's an easy choice.... but it's a personal choice. My wife prefers jacket, a buddy prefers back inflate BCD (cummerbund and pockets, etc.), I and my boys prefer BPW (I dive a jacket every so often when loaning out my BPW, just to remind myself how much I hate them!).... It's what works for YOU that counts.
As others have mentioned, the choice of BCD is independent of the buoyancy issue (excepting that some rigs are easier to put weight where you want it than others). Good trim can be achieved in nearly any type of rig (and I define good trim as center of mass aligned with center of buoyancy, allowing you to hold any position... not just horizontal or vertical). Proper weighting makes buoyancy far easier to control.... if you are over weighted, that weight has to be offset with air in the BCD. The more over weighted, the more air, the larger total buoyancy swing for the same depth change.
The method my usual dive buddy and I used early on to figure out weighting was to take a near empty (500 PSI) tank to 15 ft (hard bottom), along with a bag for left over weights, and put all our weight on a belt (easy to remove weights under water individually). Then we emptied our wings and removed weights one at a time, with an ample pause between, until we found the weight that let a large breath make us rise, and 3/4 exhale let us slowly sink. That nailed weighting. After that, with correct amount of lead, hover perfectly motionless (don't move your body at all).... if your feet sink, the weight needs moved up (in my case from the waist to upper tank strap), if your head sinks, move weight down lower. If you turn turtle, move weight towards the front of your body... if you can't roll face up and stay that way, move weight towards the back of your body. Once all that is done, you have proper weighting that will let you hold a safety stop at a low (end of dive) tank pressure, and effortless trim. The only air in the BCD from there forward will be to offset the weight of air in a full tank (about 5 lb) and wetsuit compression as you go deeper. With that in mind, the same excercise works with a full tank, but finish with adding about 4 LB to offset the air used by the end of a dive.

Respectfully,

James

Just to add, have a buddy use a camera (cheap gopro clone or whatever) so you can see what your trim really is. It may surprise you! Short of a camera, have them advise you real time of how your trim is.

Thank you for this!
Thank you everyone for all the replies.
I looked at some of the footage a dive buddy took and found a few glimpses of my buoyancy. I found that my feet were sinking and I know i had to inflate my BC a bit while on the bottom. Sadly I dont have a good screenshot of myself as I hit the bottom as the camera came in focus. Reading through all these discussions has been pretty cool and I am glad I asked. I am definitely overweighted in the jacket style(155lbs 6') 14lbs AL80 and a 5mil.
The other divers in my club tend to go for back inflate or jacket, my gripe with jacket is i cant find one to fit my well and it is so big and squeezing. Also last time i dove I was having to use the dump valve on my butt to get air out since the inflater hose wouldn't let any out, even after I raised it over my head. Is that normal?
Current plan is to get some pool time since the water is cold to work on buoyancy and order a BP/W and sit and hammer in my buoyancy.

 

[Jcp2]

Thank you for this!
Thank you everyone for all the replies.
I looked at some of the footage a dive buddy took and found a few glimpses of my buoyancy. I found that my feet were sinking and I know i had to inflate my BC a bit while on the bottom. Sadly I dont have a good screenshot of myself as I hit the bottom as the camera came in focus. Reading through all these discussions has been pretty cool and I am glad I asked. I am definitely overweighted in the jacket style(155lbs 6') 14lbs AL80 and a 5mil.
The other divers in my club tend to go for back inflate or jacket, my gripe with jacket is i cant find one to fit my well and it is so big and squeezing. Also last time i dove I was having to use the dump valve on my butt to get air out since the inflater hose wouldn't let any out, even after I raised it over my head. Is that normal?
Current plan is to get some pool time since the water is cold to work on buoyancy and order a BP/W and sit and hammer in my buoyancy.

Are you relaxed and exhaling to descend? My problem in the beginning was nervousness, so I would take in a big breath and try to descend, which meant more weight, which meant overweighting.

 

[James79]

Also last time i dove I was having to use the dump valve on my butt to get air out since the inflater hose wouldn't let any out, even after I raised it over my head. Is that normal?

It isn't just position of the inflator hose, but position of the air bubble. It is possible that the air bubble was in a spot higher than the inflator hose connection (such as bubble at the right shoulder and the corrugated hose elbow is at the left shoulder), which would leave no "uphill" path for the air to get out. I find that if the air isn't exiting, a moment's thought to maneuver the high side of the BC to be whatever dump point I'm using.

Respectfully,

James

 

[Robert H. Diver]

I don't disagree that the bp/w may be a better fit. However, as a new diver a kit change only adds to the task loading. Better to dial in bouyancy with existing equipment, then change. IMHO

How does kit change add to task loading? Unless you’re switching from single tank to sidemount or doubles. It may feel a bit different in the water but that’s not task loading.

 

[RIHappyDiver]

It isn't just position of the inflator hose, but position of the air bubble. It is possible that the air bubble was in a spot higher than the inflator hose connection (such as bubble at the right shoulder and the corrugated hose elbow is at the left shoulder), which would leave no "uphill" path for the air to get out. I find that if the air isn't exiting, a moment's thought to maneuver the high side of the BC to be whatever dump point I'm using.

Respectfully,

James

This is what I found with my wife when we did her first post cert dive last week. The instructors had drilled into her head to use her inflator hose to dump air but no one noticed that her trim was good. Once I noticed this we discussed the butt dump, which made a world of difference. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel that if your trim is good then the only time you will dump air using your inflator hose is at the very beginning of the dive. Otherwise, it is for inflating.

Erik

 

[Seaweed Doc]

OP: It sounds like you're using multiple dump valves with the jacket style. Think about where the wing (if you go that route) has dump valves. I love my BP/W setup for the most part, but would rather have the hip/butt dump on the opposite side. If you use these a bit, choose carefully.

Also, you could pick an intermediate option: There are back-inflate BCDs that don't squeeze you and dive a lot like a BP/W. I use the BP/W in cold water, but take a light travel back-inflate BCD for tropics. (I owned the BCD before the BP/W and I'm also too lazy to buy and switch out an aluminum BP for the stainless steel one.)

 

[Pressurehead]

See about borrowing a back inflate BCD or BPW for a dive or two, before spending money on a BCD at all. If you like how the feel compared to the jacket, it's an easy choice.... but it's a personal choice. My wife prefers jacket, a buddy prefers back inflate BCD (cummerbund and pockets, etc.), I and my boys prefer BPW

This is the 'basic Scuba' forum I have to keep telling myself.
The above is good advice, take your time, beg, borrow and [not the other] before passing over the $$$, and work out what works for you.

I know very good divers who dive in a basic jacket BCs and did not like a B/W when they tried them and the reverse which think a jacket BC is the 'devils spawn' and only dive B/W, and others who have both and have no problem switching between the 2 [or like me between the 3, B/W, basic SP jacket BC and back inflate BC].

The only reason I have ventured into posting here is my buoyancy is pretty bad.

Whatever you have or want, 'nail this' ^ , if you are still having trouble pay a dive professional, for some it is worth every penny, most I have helped have it 'sorted' in one session [the worst took 3 sessions] and some have been diving for years and their buoyancy was "all over the place", you sound like you know what you want, so you will have no problem.
If you don't believe me about divers who have rubbish buoyancy after diving for years, I dived with an lady who has dived around the world for 15 years, you name it, liveaboards Aust, Indo, Fiji, USA and others and her [let's call it buoyancy] was awful , she is an Warrant Officer in the Australian Air Force, so I expected no less [me being x Navy] sorry, off topic at her expense.
She sort help from a local dive pro [hint from me] and now uses a fraction of the gas she would have used diving in her jacket BC.

 

[johndiver999]

This is what I found with my wife when we did her first post cert dive last week. The instructors had drilled into her head to use her inflator hose to dump air but no one noticed that her trim was good. Once I noticed this we discussed the butt dump, which made a world of difference. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel that if your trim is good then the only time you will dump air using your inflator hose is at the very beginning of the dive. Otherwise, it is for inflating.

Erik

Funny, I pretty much NEVER use the butt dump. Everything is with the inflator and I really do like the pull dump feature of the inflator. Recently got a wing with no inflator pull dump, It really is an inconvenience, but after 4-5 dives I am sorta used to it.

Some day, maybe I will train myself to even find the rear pull dump. I am constantly adding and dumping air from the BC with the way I dive. Probably 15 times each dive, maybe more. I have had a lot of BC's that did not have a rear dump, so I guess I never needed to master that skill.

As for buying a new BP/W, just do it if you can afford it. It is not a big change from a jacket - other than the crotch strap.

 

[KenE]

How does kit change add to task loading? Unless you’re switching from single tank to sidemount or doubles. It may feel a bit different in the water but that’s not task loading.

The bp/w does not have pockets, D rings are different, or could be different, crotch strap, pushes forward at surface, I can go on about the differences but can assume you know the many differences between the two. I got the impression that the OP was renting the same BCD and had limited options at their LDS. I suggested to dive more before changing kit, IMHO it makes more sense. However, on a later post OP stated the BCD does not fit properly, this changes my suggestion. They need a BC that fits properly, if it isn't a rented one from the LDS then the purchased bp/w is the next best option.