New BC or more dives?

[inquis]

I have trouble understanding this argumentation which has been launched in this thread a few times now: " Another BC doesn't help you with your buoyancy issues

If the OP (or anyone for that matter) is renting and gets different BCs each time, having their own that doesn't change will be an improvement in various phases of the dive. An obvious example: I hate rental inflators that float up/away; I find it on my BP with eyes closed.

 

[Cheizz]

Not sure if task loading - that was my earlier remark about - is really a thing to worry about. For me, switching to a BPW really helped calm things down underwater. Getting used to it was not an issue at all - the fact that I don't have to think about things and using my BCD went more or less automatically from then on. Make sure it fits well (mostly on dry land) and once underwater it was pure relief.

Based on my own experience at least - definitely not adding things to worry about, but removing some annoyances instead. Moreover, there's also the psychological advantage that may be present. A placebo effect is just as much an effect.

 

[Jcp2]

Jacket style squeeze your rib cage as they inflate.
Hi @Eric Sedletzky I’m visiting family in San Jose, and recall you had an art studio in Felton? Unless you already moved away due to fires and business regs.

If you are properly weighted in a thinner wetsuit, the amount of air in the BC should be very small and not enough to cause a hug from the jacket.

 

[Bubblesong]

If you are properly weighted in a thinner wetsuit, the amount of air in the BC should be very small and not enough to cause a hug from the jacket.

I dive New England mostly so thinner wetsuit not an option
I just find BP/W more comfortable, although I’ll dive the jacket if i have to and i can manage buoyancy in either.

 

[James79]

the goal should be to use lungs as the short-term control, and use the BC to offload or shift the average lung volume to a comfortable place (longer-term control).

That is one of the most beautifully concise explanations I have ever seen for proper fine tuning of buoyancy! I'll be stealing that phrase.

Respectfully,

James

 

[AdivingBel]

...

 

[James79]

The only reason I have ventured into posting here is my buoyancy is pretty bad. I can keep my hands in front of me, and trim(I think) but have not mastered the art of not hitting the bottom and not Yo-Yoing to the surface while pulling dump valves to stay at depth.
Should I dive more to improve my skills before getting a new BCD? Or should I get a BCD and practice my skills in that?
I have a club trip over spring break and I really don't want to be that guy who cant stay off the bottom.

See about borrowing a back inflate BCD or BPW for a dive or two, before spending money on a BCD at all. If you like how the feel compared to the jacket, it's an easy choice.... but it's a personal choice. My wife prefers jacket, a buddy prefers back inflate BCD (cummerbund and pockets, etc.), I and my boys prefer BPW (I dive a jacket every so often when loaning out my BPW, just to remind myself how much I hate them!).... It's what works for YOU that counts.
As others have mentioned, the choice of BCD is independent of the buoyancy issue (excepting that some rigs are easier to put weight where you want it than others). Good trim can be achieved in nearly any type of rig (and I define good trim as center of mass aligned with center of buoyancy, allowing you to hold any position... not just horizontal or vertical). Proper weighting makes buoyancy far easier to control.... if you are over weighted, that weight has to be offset with air in the BCD. The more over weighted, the more air, the larger total buoyancy swing for the same depth change.
The method my usual dive buddy and I used early on to figure out weighting was to take a near empty (500 PSI) tank to 15 ft (hard bottom), along with a bag for left over weights, and put all our weight on a belt (easy to remove weights under water individually). Then we emptied our wings and removed weights one at a time, with an ample pause between, until we found the weight that let a large breath make us rise, and 3/4 exhale let us slowly sink. That nailed weighting. After that, with correct amount of lead, hover perfectly motionless (don't move your body at all).... if your feet sink, the weight needs moved up (in my case from the waist to upper tank strap), if your head sinks, move weight down lower. If you turn turtle, move weight towards the front of your body... if you can't roll face up and stay that way, move weight towards the back of your body. Once all that is done, you have proper weighting that will let you hold a safety stop at a low (end of dive) tank pressure, and effortless trim. The only air in the BCD from there forward will be to offset the weight of air in a full tank (about 5 lb) and wetsuit compression as you go deeper. With that in mind, the same excercise works with a full tank, but finish with adding about 4 LB to offset the air used by the end of a dive.

Respectfully,

James

Just to add, have a buddy use a camera (cheap gopro clone or whatever) so you can see what your trim really is. It may surprise you! Short of a camera, have them advise you real time of how your trim is.

 

[KenE]

I never said that it would fix anything. I just don't think it does hurt either.

I have trouble understanding this argumentation which has been launched in this thread a few times now: " Another BC doesn't help you with your buoyancy issues, therefore: don't buy another BC."

If the BC doesn't matter for the buoyancy issue - which it what we're all agreeing on, I think - then why shouldn't OP invest in something that at least might give a psychological advantage?

I don't disagree that the bp/w may be a better fit. However, as a new diver a kit change only adds to the task loading. Better to dial in bouyancy with existing equipment, then change. IMHO

 

[James79]

I don't disagree that the bp/w may be a better fit. However, as a new diver a kit change only adds to the task loading. Better to dial in bouyancy with existing equipment, then change. IMHO

Not addressed yet is if the OP owns a BCD at all yet. When I first got into DIY and buying gear, I dove the first reg-set I ever rebuilt myself for the first time, with the first dive of a BCD I rehabbed (first back inflate I ever tried) wearing a brand new wetsuit and using a pony bottle for the first time. The DM that was showing me the dive site thought I was nuts, until I pointed out that prior to that every dive I had done was rental gear..... you know, changing my regs, tanks, wetsuit, BCD all at once. The only part that was a "new" experience was slinging the pony (even that had carryover from underwater egress training as a pilot). The norm up to that point was everything being changed.
As to the task loading of the change from Jacket BCD to BPW.... the inflator is the same. The dumps may be different, but how many tourist type divers with rental gear have any clue where the other dumps on the jacket they rented are? The wing may even be easier due to how easy to find it is (touch your hip and follow it back).

I'm not saying you're wrong, but there's another viewpoint. If every dive trip is already a different rental rig, buying a BPW may be just the same amount of change while being the beginning of consistency (finally diving the same rig regularly).

Respectfully,

James

Additionally, I still recommend at least renting or borrowing a back inflate or BPW before spending the money to see if it truly suits you. Just remember that buoyancy and trim is affected by the particular BCD (my BPW is 5 lb less buoyant than the jacket it replaced, with a different placement of lead necessary for trim).

 

[DreadnoughtNH]

Then why hold off on buying a new BC? If the OP hates the jacket style (and that's all there is for rent), by all means, go ahead and buy that Backplate & Wing. That way, you just want to go diving more instead of having to overcome that 'bleh I have to get myself in that jacket thing again' feeling every time.
Then get in the water and dive. You'll work out your buoyancy with all tips and tricks that can be found out there (and on here).

If the OP has money to burn, then they should not hold off and instead trial and error purchasing gear to their heart's content. I wish I had that luxury when I was a college student!

Rental and instruction jacket style BCs are generally terrible. They cover the greatest cross section of diver shape, which means they rarely fit anyone particularly well. According to their profile, the OP has less than 25 dives to their credit. With absolutely no offense meant, that data point probably means the OP has only a vague idea of how different BCs fit and/or dive, and every dive is probably 'bleh' feeling in terms of jacket comfort.

I hate jacket style BCs as well, having purchased a well recommended one as my first BC (after only 20 or so dives). I hated every minute in it; but I was also a shite diver and didn't know what I actually preferred.

I'm now a somewhat less shite diver (I learn something new almost every week I dive, so I would never call myself an 'expert') and have ended up in a hybrid BC (somewhere between a jacket and a BP/W) and I'm very pleased with it.