Larger BC, more weight?

[rongoodman]

My point is that if he sets his weight so that the BC needs to be dead empty in order for him to hold his stop there will be times when that won't be enough to let him do so.

 

[Boarderguy]

He's saying that if a diver took my suggestions to twist and turn to squeeze every drop of air out of the BCD during the test, then the diver would have to do it on every subsequent dive since that is what the weight is adjusted for.

I recognized that. He's a newer diver and once they figure out how to fully dump via "contortion" they end up doing it with ease. You and I both agree on that.

My point is that if he sets his weight so that the BC needs to be dead empty in order for him to hold his stop there will be times when that isn't enough to let him do so.

Once he finds the actual weight needed to stay down with an empty BC then he can adjust for what ifs. I dive with a few extra pounds because I like to keep extra air in my drysuit for warmth. We all have our own variations, but being grossly overweight shouldn't be one.

 

[Blackcrusader]

I’m a new OW diver trying to figure out optimal weighting and buoyancy. I am 6 feet tall, 245 pounds with around 15% body fat. I’m diving in salt water with a Neotek2 8/7/6.

OK. I am 6ft weigh around 300 pounds. I have used BP/W but prefer a normal BCD so I use the XXL Scuba Pro BLACK.
I do not use a wetsuit and use 8kg. My BCD uses inserts and also has two shoulder back pockets. So 2kg in each insert and pocket.
This BCD has a large amount of lift capacity. You can easily bring two people to the surface with it.

It was really easy for me to use this BCD from the first dive. Really comfortable. So whether or not you use BP/W or BCD once you adjust straps and where your tank sits you can get buoyancy really easy. Also when people always claim to be at safety stop with say 40 bar for 500 psi, it's nice to have a bit of extra weight if you are in foamy water in a swell. You can see my tank strap... it's halfway down the tank... because that's where I need it with my weights to ease into any trim I like.

When I get to the boat I slip out and hand up the two inserts to boat crew. Less weight to get into the boat with.

 

[nwlinux]

I appreciate the discussion and perspectives. What I am reading is that I should be able to reduce my lead a little now. I am also reading that I should be testing various weighting using the floating method at the surface to test where I should be weighted more often.

Once again, the feedback and discussion helps me understands everyone's perspectives and experiences that got them there.

 

[Boarderguy]

I appreciate the discussion and perspectives. What I am reading is that I should be able to reduce my lead a little now. I am also reading that I should be testing various weighting using the floating method at the surface to test where I should be weighted more often.

Once again, the feedback and discussion helps me understands everyone's perspectives and experiences that got them there.

There are lots of dive clubs in our area. Marker Buoy, Kelp Crawlers, Bubbles and Suds, Thursday Night Divers, etc. Most can be found on bookface. There is also NW Dive Club linked below. You're in a area with a huge diver presence and some of the best diving in the world. It's 6-gill season right now so you have that to look forward to.

Northwest Dive Club - Homepage

 

[Blackcrusader]

I’ve used several calculators and methods to figure out weighting; they vary from 24-27 pounds. Based on the data I have experienced while diving, it seems like I need another three or so pounds and larger single tank wing than 32#. Thoughts or recommendations?

Don't worry about calculators. Just use the amount of weight you need to easily stay at 5m when you have say 350 psi. Why 350 psi... use the lowest amount of air you would expect you may exit the water with. It's not always 500 psi

One of my dive buddies, an IDC Course director. She's around 5ft and weighs not a lot... She dives using Commander BCD. Really compact.

Me on the other hand, I cause small tsunamis when going off the boat lol

 

[Blackcrusader]

I appreciate the discussion and perspectives. What I am reading is that I should be able to reduce my lead a little now. I am also reading that I should be testing various weighting using the floating method at the surface to test where I should be weighted more often.

Once again, the feedback and discussion helps me understands everyone's perspectives and experiences that got them there.

It's not a competition to use less weight. I see divers who can't hold the safety stop as underweighted. I can pull them down though.

Am I overweighted? Well you have a BCD to compensate. Better to have more weight that not enough.

 

[Belzelbub]

I’m a new OW diver trying to figure out optimal weighting and buoyancy. I am 6 feet tall, 245 pounds with around 15% body fat. I’m diving in salt water with a Neotek2 8/7/6.

I bought a 32# wing which doesn’t seem to lift me out of the water enough for a surface swim without a snorkel or using my air. With that said, towards the end of my dive, I can’t seem to stay down with an empty BC and 27 pounds of weight with a steel 100.

Some things aren't adding up for me here. I saw some posts on doing a proper weight check, and I would recommend this as well. Just going to add a few points.

27 lbs with a steel 100 sounds really high to me. However, you are also using a much thicker wetsuit than I'm familiar with, so it's possible that's what you need. For the sake of discussion, your lift needs to be sufficient to offset your total ballast. I'm assuming that you are able to at least establish neutral buoyancy at depth. If that's the case, that's a data point indicating that your lift is not undersized. That said, with the amount of weight and the negative properties of the steel, you may be really close. Your exposure suit offsets some of the weight at the surface, but that goes away at depth with a wetsuit. How full is the wing when you first get to the bottom and establish neutral. If it's full, or nearly so, you may need a larger wing for that given weight.

Since you said wing, I'm assuming BP/W or at least rear-inflate. No matter how large the wing is, it will never be able to float someone during a surface swim without using a snorkel or regulator. Assuming we aren't talking about backstroke, the lift is all on the diver's back, so at most the back will be at the surface, but everything else underwater.

You really need to do a weight check at the end of your dive during a safety stop. At this point, your tank is closer to empty, your wetsuit has re-expanded. So in other words, you'll be at your most buoyant at this point. Your wing should be empty, or nearly empty. If it's not, there's some weight that can be shed.

If your dive count in your profile is correct, being overweighted is pretty much expected. A lot of instructors teach with their students overweighted as they feel it's easier that way. Also, it's a normal tendency for a newer diver to hold a bit more air in their lungs. This will get better with time.

 

[nwlinux]

Some things aren't adding up for me here. I saw some posts on doing a proper weight check, and I would recommend this as well. Just going to add a few points.

27 lbs with a steel 100 sounds really high to me. However, you are also using a much thicker wetsuit than I'm familiar with, so it's possible that's what you need. For the sake of discussion, your lift needs to be sufficient to offset your total ballast. I'm assuming that you are able to at least establish neutral buoyancy at depth. If that's the case, that's a data point indicating that your lift is not undersized. That said, with the amount of weight and the negative properties of the steel, you may be really close. Your exposure suit offsets some of the weight at the surface, but that goes away at depth with a wetsuit. How full is the wing when you first get to the bottom and establish neutral. If it's full, or nearly so, you may need a larger wing for that given weight.

Since you said wing, I'm assuming BP/W or at least rear-inflate. No matter how large the wing is, it will never be able to float someone during a surface swim without using a snorkel or regulator. Assuming we aren't talking about backstroke, the lift is all on the diver's back, so at most the back will be at the surface, but everything else underwater.

You really need to do a weight check at the end of your dive during a safety stop. At this point, your tank is closer to empty, your wetsuit has re-expanded. So in other words, you'll be at your most buoyant at this point. Your wing should be empty, or nearly empty. If it's not, there's some weight that can be shed.

If your dive count in your profile is correct, being overweighted is pretty much expected. A lot of instructors teach with their students overweighted as they feel it's easier that way. Also, it's a normal tendency for a newer diver to hold a bit more air in their lungs. This will get better with time.

Thank you for your contribution.
Yes, neutral buoyancy at depth is no problem. Once I drop and get down to depth, I give my BC no more than 2-4 quick air shots and I'm good. The rest is breath control and my lungs. Yes, it is a BP/W setup.
To add additional clarity, I was talking about backstroke on the surface. The 32# did not do well getting me out of the water, but my WTX-D40 is sufficient to accomplish out of the water backstroke surface swimming.
At safety stops, my wing is empty or pretty close to it.

 

[Belzelbub]

Thank you for your contribution.
Yes, neutral buoyancy at depth is no problem. Once I drop weight and get down to depth, I give my BC no more than 2-4 quick air shots and I'm good. The rest is breath control and my lungs. Yes, it is a BP/W setup.
To add additional clarity, I was talking about backstroke on the surface. The 32# did not do well getting me out of the water, but my WTX-D40 is sufficient to accomplish out of the water backstroke surface swimming.
At safety stops, my wing is empty or pretty close to it.

Perfect. Sounds like then you are probably as close on weighting as you need to be. 27lbs of lead and a steel tank will be pretty close to the wing lift capacity. Especially if that 27lbs is on top of the backplate itself. Larger wing definitely sounds like a good idea then.

For comparison, I dive in much warmer waters, so thinner BC at most. I use a back inflate BC with 35lbs of lift. The most weight I use is 8lbs, but 6lbs is generally sufficient. Adding this just to show the delta between lift and ballast in the two cases, not to compare my weight needs in warm water to yours. Weighting needs are individual.