Local Man drowns at Jackson Blue Springs

[Rick Murchison]

... contributed to the panic...

Please, folks, let's not assign things like "panic" to the victim - especially when the source is a reporter who thinks there were "oxygen tanks." Removing one's harness & tanks to get out of a restriction isn't a sign of panic at all, so let's not go there.
How he got separated from his tanks is another question, and any conclusion is at this time speculation... my guess is it probably has to do with the very positive buoyancy of a drysuit and the very negative buoyancy of the tanks while trying to negotiate a restriction with some vertical to it.
Maybe the buddy or Edd will come forward with some more info. In the meantime... ???
Tragic.
Thanks,
Rick

 

[indydivegal]

Please, folks, let's not assign things like "panic" to the victim - especially when the source is a reporter who thinks there were "oxygen tanks." Removing one's harness & tanks to get out of a restriction isn't a sign of panic at all, so let's not go there.
Thanks,
Rick

Very good statement Rick. Those removals were more than likely his attempt to free himself of his being lodged.

 

[ianr33]

It would be interesting to know if the tanks had gas in them.Sounds like Edd got to him very quickly and cave filled double steel tanks last a long time at 90 feet.

 

[Meng_Tze]

Actually I understand the argument,I just don't agree with meng-tze rationalization. Personally nothing positive has come from pushing limits in cave diving,except the rules that we use because of the fatalities,but at what cost. The WKPP is seen as pushing the limits of extreme cave diving,but in reality they aren't pushing limits because they have so many safeties and so much support that they don't push limits.

Exactly to my point. We have the rules in place because that is the limit we set. How did we get there, by people pushing the limits and finding out where these limits would not be pushed any further.

WKPP is definitely pushing the limits, 24 hrs under water on SCUBA in a cave miles in and hundreds of feet deep.... think back 25-30 years ago, this was unheard of. Crazy they would have said....now we have people thinking it is not pushing limits per se.

People inherently push limits, whether we like it or not. Like I mentioned in a previous post, the difference is doing this with an understanding of what/where you are pushing or blatantly going beyond the limits. When you blatantly go beyond limits, you depend on a great amount of luck. If you push the limits with a foundational understanding of where and what you are pushing, you increase your chances of success and limit your dependency on luck.

Do you think Columbus, Gagarin, Exley pushed limits or went beyond. What did we end up with from their exploits?

 

[Mike Edmonston]

Who's to say this guy didn't start cave diving back in the early days before cave training was available. If that's the case, would it be necessary to get "officially" trained?.

You bet your @ss it is! Just because I have been flying planes with my dad since I was 5, does that mean that I should go up in a cessna without formal training? Just because I have been hunting all my life, does that mean that the military didn't have to send me to Sniper school???

Experience does not replace training, and training does not equal experience.

These are completely AVOIDABLE accidents period, and I for one am sick and tired of people dying in caves. The training is there. Hell, Jim Wyatt will certify you in 1 week! So there's no reason in the world that this guy couldn't have got proper, correct and complete training.

This is senseless. We should count our blessings that Politicians aren't getting on the "Deadly caves at state parks" bandwagon! If they do, the only place we'll be able to cave dive, is online!

NO CHEERS!

Mike

 

[Spectre]

Would it have been more acceptable if it had been a fully trained, experienced cave diver who got stuck? It seems to me that stuck is stuck....whoever you are.

Judging from the original story......he was stuck....but had removed his doubles?????? Sounds to me like he was trying to get through a small opening that he couldn't make wearing his tanks, a la Chatterton on the U-869. That's not exactly an OW stunt 600ft back in a cave!!!!

That's a very large leap to conclude he was stuck trying to pass through a no mount restriction. There are many places where you get yourself through one direction, but when you turn around to exit, you can't quite find the position that allowed you to get through. It's called getting keyholed, and it can very quickly cause you to soil your undergarments.

I will tell you one thing; If they find me dead stuck in a cave, you better believe my gear isn't going to be on anymore. I can see the newspaper comment now: "Jeff surgically cut his harness webbing in a fit of panic".

 

[loosebits]

I would be interested to know at what point and why his buddy decided to go for help. Did he try to free his buddy until he was running low on gas himself or did he believe he could get aide to his buddy in time? At what point did the victim decide to ditch his gear and was his buddy present? I have a hard time imagining a scenario where he was able to get out of his gear with his buddy present and not be able to clear the restriction.

 

[Lehmann108]

I will tell you one thing; If they find me dead stuck in a cave, you better believe my gear isn't going to be on anymore. I can see the newspaper comment now: "Jeff surgically cut his harness webbing in a fit of panic".

...and used his hands to punch a hole through 500 tons of solid rock to create a new surface openning for the cave." Fear can be a great motivator!

 

[CoyKoi]

My sincere condolences to the family. I can't even imagine what they are going through.

Let this be a sober reminder to all of us who venture into the beautiful netherworld of cave diving. Please, please remember, there are those not in the cave with you who love you and are waiting for you to come home tonight.

 

[ArcticDiver]

You bet your @ss it is! Just because I have been flying planes with my dad since I was 5, does that mean that I should go up in a cessna without formal training? Just because I have been hunting all my life, does that mean that the military didn't have to send me to Sniper school???

Experience does not replace training, and training does not equal experience.

These are completely AVOIDABLE accidents period, and I for one am sick and tired of people dying in caves. The training is there. Hell, Jim Wyatt will certify you in 1 week! So there's no reason in the world that this guy couldn't have got proper, correct and complete training.

This is senseless. We should count our blessings that Politicians aren't getting on the "Deadly caves at state parks" bandwagon! If they do, the only place we'll be able to cave dive, is online!

NO CHEERS!

Mike

I am seldom moved to extreme passion by anything in the cyberworld. But this piece of unthinking trash has done that.

No, and I mean none, endeavor is without risk. No, and I mean none, sport, let alone scuba in any form, is so safe that an accident is completely avoidable as claimed here. Even if the probability of success is 99% there is a remaining 1% that sooner, or later, will catch up with someone.

None of us was there. None of us knows the specific facts and circumstances. If this is not correct please post so we know.

But, from what is on the net it seems the odds just caught up with this guy. It happens.

So, lets not blame the victim. Instead, lets mourn the loss of a fellow human being.