Cave diver drowns - Jackson Blue Springs, Florida

[RedSeaDiver2]

So the bad news for the community is that our culture does not stop individuals from pushing their limits even when they understand they should not. This could be due to several factors (social pressure, willingness to achieve great results, etc.). The good news is that now we know that we need to push even more for a culture of being conservative. This is the takeaway.

The thing to discuss at this point is how to do it - I am just unsure if this is the right place

But where is there a better place? RF5?

 

[billgraham]

How about the aftermath? What can we do differently if we are in the cave when something like that happens? If you are in the cave, and you don't know what's going on other than there's some sort of silt disaster, what can we do as divers to be better understood?

 

[billgraham]

Disagree.

The victim and the survivor were:



They were especially aware of the risks, nevertheless, they went for this dive.

So the bad news for the community is that our culture does not stop individuals from pushing their limits even when they understand they should not. This could be due to several factors (social pressure, willingness to achieve great results, etc.). The good news is that now we know that we need to push even more for a culture of being conservative. This is the takeaway.

The thing to discuss at this point is how to do it - I am just unsure if this is the right place

I agree with encouraging conservatism and there's also the issue of it being a relatively simple dive right up until trying that line (which shouldn't have been there in the first place).

 

[boulderjohn]

When looking at what should be done in the event of a situation like this, we have to recognize that there cannot be a universal system because each situation is different. Edd has earned justified praise for the number of successful rescues he has made, but there is more than individual skill going with those rescues. As he says in the video, he has gear and trained employees ready to go if anything happens in the caves that are a stone's throw from his business.

When two OW, AL 80 teens went into Twin cave a few years ago, there just happened to be two divers in the cavern area just completing their dives. Seeing the first enter and muck everything up, they had the good sense to drop to their line and exit the cave, luckily running into the first diver's brother on the way out. Once on the surface, they called Edd, and he was there in time to find the first diver in the silt out.

I don't know of any other cave diving location in the world that has such a situation, so if you just go out looking for help, there is no telling what you will find.

 

[Rilelen]

I believe Steeleyes may have misremembered part of the rescue class. In the class, you are taught that one method of dealing with a panicked diver on the surface is to go beneath, come up from behind, and take control as described. A panicked diver on the surface is not looking for an air source. What you are supposed to do once you are in that position is grab the inflator house and make the panicked diver buoyant. A panicked diver will likely calm down as soon as buoyancy is achieved.

That's the theory anyway. I have never seen a panicked diver on the surface, and I don't know anyone else who has, either. In the only cases I have heard of, a panicked diver under water gets calm pretty quickly after reaching the surface. The concern in this thread is the panicked OOA diver under water.

I’ve had a panicked diver on the surface but it was passive panic - they were positively buoyant so I stayed out of arm’s reach and monitored/talked to them until I could get them calmed down and responsive again. (They had removed their fins, got thrown off the tag line in heavy seas, and in their panic at drifting off kept trying to swim back with their fins in their hands…).

 

[boulderjohn]

I’ve had a panicked diver on the surface but it was passive panic

If you have ever looked at the articles titled along the lines of "drowning does not look like drowning," you will wonder if the stereotypical panicked diver thrashing about, looking to drown anyone who comes near, ever actually happens.

 

[billgraham]

If you have ever looked at the articles titled along the lines of "drowning does not look like drowning," you will wonder if the stereotypical panicked diver thrashing about, looking to drown anyone who comes near, ever actually happens.

Coming from surfing, I've rescued a number of panicked swimmers and what drew my attention in the first instance was always their eyes because their mouths were underwater. That is an excellent article and I usually post that link at the beginning of each summer because people really don't know how to recognize drowning. As far as panic underwater goes, if the diver's eyeballs look like they are going to touch the front of the mask, watch out.

 

[boulderjohn]

Coming from surfing, I've rescued a number of panicked swimmers and what drew my attention in the first instance was always their eyes because their mouths were underwater. That is an excellent article and I usually post that link at the beginning of each summer because people really don't know how to recognize drowning. As far as panic underwater goes, if the diver's eyeballs look like they are going to touch the front of the mask, watch out.

I have never been near the rescue of an actual diver who reached the surface, and you describe accurately the only case ever described to me by someone who did witness it. It was on the surface at the wreck of the Spiegel Grove in Florida. The DM on my friend's boat started shouting, calling out to the crew of another boat to tell them they had a diver in distress, and when they did not respond, he yelled to the diver to inflate his BCD. He did not. He just slowly started going under water--silently and without fanfare. The DM jumped in, caught up with him at about 20 feet, and dragged him to the surface. CPR revived him.