Cave diver drowns - Jackson Blue Springs, Florida

[Endler's]

I think he meant "handed off your 2nd stage [regulator]...".

Thank you @stuartv, the alternate second stage regulator is indeed what I was referring to.

 

[steinbil]

I was taught to go negative, swim under or past and come up and control them by grabbing their first stage and lock legs on either side of their tank. They can't take your air source that way. I'd stay well clear of a panicked person's hands.

I'm not completely sure we're talking about the same scenario here, but if that's your response to a diver signaling OOG, I think you might be making a bad situation worse.

First of all, not donating as soon as possible would surely increase the panic of the OOG diver and escalate the situation. Secondly, if a panicked diver comes towards you for a regulator, and sees you head down, why would he not just follow you down, grab your tanks, grab a hose? I doubt he would just let you swim beneath him, essentially offering your back to him.

In my mind, although to be fair I haven't experienced having to donate, the best course of action is:

1. Dive with people who won't suddenly run out of gas
2. With good awareness you will see a situation develop and intervene before you reach the critical panic stage
3. If caught unaware by a distressed OOG diver, give them an easy gas source, donate a reg you know works (your primary) extended as far away from your body as possible, and as close to their face as possible. I would think they would go for the accessible reg first, not you. Hopefully quick access to gas will calm them down, you're in a position to monitor their state of mind, and can possible make evasive action if needed.

 

[boulderjohn]

I was taught to go negative, swim under or past and come up and control them by grabbing their first stage and lock legs on either side of their tank. They can't take your air source that way. I'd stay well clear of a panicked person's hands.

I'm not completely sure we're talking about the same scenario here, but if that's your response to a diver signaling OOG, I think you might be making a bad situation worse.

I believe Steeleyes may have misremembered part of the rescue class. In the class, you are taught that one method of dealing with a panicked diver on the surface is to go beneath, come up from behind, and take control as described. A panicked diver on the surface is not looking for an air source. What you are supposed to do once you are in that position is grab the inflator house and make the panicked diver buoyant. A panicked diver will likely calm down as soon as buoyancy is achieved.

That's the theory anyway. I have never seen a panicked diver on the surface, and I don't know anyone else who has, either. In the only cases I have heard of, a panicked diver under water gets calm pretty quickly after reaching the surface. The concern in this thread is the panicked OOA diver under water.

 

[RedSeaDiver2]

Does anyone know how the dive buddy from that day is doing? Hopefully DAN or another organisation organised some counselling for him and someone has explained that leaving the stuck diver was the right thing to do.

Anyone know if NSS-CDS is doing an investigation of the incident to see what can be learnt from it?

 

[billgraham]

Does anyone know how the dive buddy from that day is doing? Hopefully DAN or another organisation organised some counselling for him and someone has explained that leaving the stuck diver was the right thing to do.

Anyone know if NSS-CDS is doing an investigation of the incident to see what can be learnt from it?

She is doing great. As far as what can be learned, I don't think you're ever going to have a more complete accident report than Edd's video right there, so let's talk about it. There was a lot of speculation for pages and pages, what are the take aways after hearing the facts?

 

[Underwater Tourist]

what are the take aways after hearing the facts?

Nothing new to be honest, and consistent with what was speculated on in the very beginning

A person with no training and no experience in doing real tight sm restrictions gets stuck, panics pretty much immediately (remember how edd says that when the buddy turned around the guy was already in panic mode and loop out), and unfortunately dies

I want to point out how DT guys also had numerous issues passing thru the restriction in the bahamas. Now i suspect some stuff was over exaggeration, but i remember how they kept saying in the video along the lines of "oh i couldnt reach this, couldnt reach that to operate my rb, couldnt breath etc etc". In other words, the restriction caused some real issues for them

so my personal takeaway from those two cases - besides the obvious dont dive sht you arent trained for - was to sign up for a nice 3day workshop with my instructor on how to dive real tight sm mx passages. Am I planning to dive those tight restrictions regularly? hell no, but at least i hope it will prepare me so i wont be the guy who spits out the loop in the first couple of mins of being stuck

 

[RedSeaDiver2]

She is doing great.

OK that is excellent news. Still diving too I hope.

 

[RedSeaDiver2]

Nothing new to be honest, and consistent with what was speculated on in the very beginning

A person with no training and no experience in doing real tight sm restrictions gets stuck, panics pretty much immediately (remember how edd says that when the buddy turned around the guy was already in panic mode and loop out), and unfortunately dies

I want to point out how DT guys also had numerous issues passing thru the restriction in the bahamas. Now i suspect some stuff was over exaggeration, but i remember how they kept saying in the video along the lines of "oh i couldnt reach this, couldnt reach that to operate my rb, couldnt breath etc etc". In other words, the restriction caused some real issues for them

so my personal takeaway from those two cases - besides the obvious dont dive sht you arent trained for - was to sign up for a nice 3day workshop with my instructor on how to dive real tight sm mx passages. Am I planning to dive those tight restrictions regularly? hell no, but at least i hope it will prepare me so i wont be the guy who spits out the loop in the first couple of mins of being stuck

My takeaway is that if I can't get through without scraping the sides then go elsewhere!

 

[ginti]

Nothing new to be honest

Disagree.

The victim and the survivor were:

The deceased was a DAN medic and the surviving team member was a member of the Risk Mitigation team at DAN.

They were especially aware of the risks, nevertheless, they went for this dive.

So the bad news for the community is that our culture does not stop individuals from pushing their limits even when they understand they should not. This could be due to several factors (social pressure, willingness to achieve great results, etc.). The good news is that now we know that we need to push even more for a culture of being conservative. This is the takeaway.

The thing to discuss at this point is how to do it - I am just unsure if this is the right place

 

[RedSeaDiver2]

So the bad news for the community is that our culture does not stop individuals from pushing their limits even when they understand they should not. This could be due to several factors (social pressure, willingness to achieve great results, etc.). The good news is that now we know that we need to push even more for a culture of being conservative. This is the takeaway.

The thing to discuss at this point is how to do it - I am just unsure if this is the right place

But where is there a better place? RF5?