Just got my new Seaskin Nova -- The Good and the Ehhhhh...

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There, fixed for ya!

There are a lot of suits in the $2000 price range, but I can't think of any that give you the ability to change as many options. Even if I add in the boots (bought from somewhere else), the dry gloves, extra seals, and an undersuit I was still @ $1500. That's pretty epic (to me). The only suits that I know that include any / some of that stuff are the $3k suits,

Their website could have a little more info for all the different options to help prevent any frustrations like the op had. Some descriptions for things are like 4 words.
No, you can get Rofos and some other suits with extras for 2000 grand and under too.

I find your gripes unjustified and unfair towards seaskin.
Yes, their website isn't great, you knew that before you ordered. They're are a no-frills mum and pop store. That why you're getting a good price.

The glove/ring issue and that you didn't know how to use the p-valve is 100% you fault.
When you buy stuff in the internet directly from the manufacturer, it's on you to do the homework. People that need extra service can go into a LDS or buy from an online retailer that offers help over the phone or mail or has a great wesite. That costs money you weren't looking to spend.

You got a great product for a super low price and now you're essentially complaining about the website and having picked the wrong options.

If you had spend 4 or 5 grand on a SF tech suit you would have also pissed youself and would have ended up with the same gloves/rings. Not knowing how to use a p-valve is not the fault of the drysuit manufacturer.
What kind of manual were you expecting? It's a hose and one valve you can open and close.
 
I think we may be going a bit over the top harsh wise, Seaskin makes great suits but the web site can be confusing and with so many options it’s easy to miss a detail. I sort of wish suit makers would all adopt the oval size rings as the standard unless you specifically ask for something else.
 
I think we may be going a bit over the top harsh wise, Seaskin makes great suits but the web site can be confusing and with so many options it’s easy to miss a detail. I sort of wish suit makers would all adopt the oval size rings as the standard unless you specifically ask for something else.

Well that’s just silly when they offer the superior Kubi system as both a on seal and suit mounted option.

While meant as a joke having dove both systems, I do think Kubi > Rolock, but both are good systems.
 
Well that’s just silly when they offer the superior Kubi system as both a on seal and suit mounted option.

While meant as a joke having dove both systems, I do think Kubi > Rolock, but both are good systems.
That’s why I said you should have to “specifically“ ask for an inferior system.
 
I think we may be going a bit over the top harsh wise, Seaskin makes great suits but the web site can be confusing and with so many options it’s easy to miss a detail. I sort of wish suit makers would all adopt the oval size rings as the standard unless you specifically ask for something else.

I have to disagree with you here. To better understand all the hullabaloo about the alleged deficiencies of the Seaskin website, I went and explored their site and stepped through the customization options for a Seaskin Nova membrane drysuit. It was simple, easy, well laid out for the vast amount of options they offer, and I read through all "More Info" product information for all the options they present, and there was plenty of info provided. There is a button on the bottom of the page as you step through the process that says "Any Questions? Contact Us!" and it links to a page with their phone number, email address, and online submission form.

While the product info for the Light Monkey Tinkle Valve does not explain that it is user opened/closed, there are pictures on the Seaskin product page that shows the bolt under the cap.
1688701816959.png


If that did not give an adequate idea of how it works, a quick search of the product on the Light Monkey website indicates the following:
  • Unique o-ring sealed cover that is easy to open and close bare handed or with thick dry gloves
Obviously the OP was not familiar with this product before they selected the option, otherwise they would not have had the aforementioned issue. I believe that most consider it a reasonable and prudent expectation to check the manufacturers product page to understand what one is ordering BEFORE adding it as a customized option to the overall purchase....and if not, that the next prudent thing would be to ensure they understood how the device worked before sticking an adhesive catheter condom to their penis, connecting the tube, and zipping their suit shut....not doing so is just asking for the trouble that the OP experienced.

And for the cuff ring system? Again, this can only be the result of the OP not understanding what they were selecting as a customization, because the product pages were fairly straight forward. Here is a screen shot of the offerings:

1688701917549.png


There is adequate product description when one selects "More Info", and the differences between the Si-Tech wrist systems has been discussed ad nauseum here on Scuba Board where the info is readily available....which has not been a barrier for folks to start new threads asking for the info, and I don't recall ever seeing a response where anyone says to use the board's search function....and, as you know, there are certain board members among us that are the ones quite often supplying the information :wink:.

In all, I am actually quite impressed with the step by step process Seaskin has laid out with their website to order a custom drysuit. It is actually not easy to miss an option with how well the step by step selection process is laid out. The options are grouped in 9 categories (the 10th being one's actual measurements) and each category is different step of the process. In the end, the final review, all the options selected are laid out and listed under their category heading with the total cost of the options selected for each category. There are even convenient links to jump back to the 9 different categories and double check or change selections. It seems one really has to want to F^ck up their order to get it wrong...And on top of that they encourage you to contact them should you have any questions or concerns, or just want more info on what option you might want to order or leave off the list.

Initially the OP had the support of most who read and responded to this thread, but the more he discussed his experience, the more it became clear that he screwed up...and then he added some oh so charming snark. So no, I don't think folks, including myself, are being over the top or too harsh on the OP.

-Z
 
You made a mistake and now you want money back.... ummmm...
Yes, EXACTLY. The Seaskin website contains incomplete information, which caused me to misdiagnose the problem at the Plan stage while crossing the Bridge of Execution. This lack of information thereby led me into a Knowledge-based Mistake as defined by Don Norman in his seminal book The Design of Everyday Things.

I teach this stuff.
 
I have to disagree with you here. (et cetera)

-Z
Lolz. No.

I'm not going to pursue this much further because we're already at the point of diminishing returns, and further bickering would degenerate into a bazillion short, fragmented responses; e.g., I'd point out that the photo of the p-valve isn't of the disassembled valve but a shot of three different valves next to each other, and then you'd respond to that, and we'd get way off topic.

And I'd like to point out that your initial post was, frankly, more of a personal attack than a critique of the situation.

The big point, with which I will conclude, is that you're approaching the situation with an expert insider's view, not the view of a typical user.

One of my profs in grad school had a good acronym for what's going on here: COIK. It stands for Clear Only If Known. You seem to be the board's acknowledged expert on dryglove systems. So from your expert perspective, sure, everything about the dryglove options on the Seaskin website is absolutely crystal clear. But to someone who's not an expert, the Seaskin website's info design is at least highly unclear, and in fact, it borders on obfuscatory.

And I'm not sure why you're defending the company against a customer who had a problem. That just seems backward.
 
That’s why I said you should have to “specifically“ ask for an inferior system.
The reality is that neither the round QCP system or the QCS oval system come installed as standard/stock for Seaskin drysuits....the two ring systems are selectable additional/customization options for their suits.....meaning one has to select/ask for the addition of the wrist system, the QCP or whatever it is called on the Seaskin website is not included unless one asks for it, as is true for the QCS oval, the Slaggo system, the Kubi system, or anything other than glued in bottle shaped latex seals.

Based on that, is the Seaskin website and options contained therein not already aligned with what state above?

-Z
 
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