Info Is DAN Insurance worthwhile?

[Joneill]

You don't need the $30k in hand, you just need a CC.

You also need to have $30K in available credit - or call the CC company and request an emergency bump.

 

[Joneill]

I don’t know about the banks Woody’s cards were through, but I’m with Chase and when I went to notify them I was going to Mexico last year, the Chase mobile app said they no longer need to be notified. They use other metrics to prevent fraud. I even called and asked and they said they didn’t need to know.

Chase is great in this regard but not all cards are like that. With others i've had,, you did need to notify if traveling, especially outside the country.

 

[cerich]

This feels like fear mongering.

Medical grade O2 is a "controlled" substance, things like ABO are not. I'd recommend researching good samaritan laws, assuming that a reasonable person would consider providing O2 to a good course of action. I think Considering that DCI or IPE are both improved by providing O2 and until recently heart attacks were given O2 as well it seems pretty reasonable.




Dr Doolette and Dr Mitchel have both advised that they do not want to see it turn into something with dive boats advertising "IWR here"



You should look into a non-rebreather mask hooked up to a BC low pressure hose adapter.



Read this: In-water recompression - PubMed

Actually ABO is (it is USP and thus controlled, unlike welding grade which is not), and in fact in many places you have to provide a pilots license to get oxygen filled for aviation (I have one). How well this is controlled varies place to place, but even in states, it's still a controlled drug.

Good Samaritan laws (far from universal in all jurisdictions) will cover first aid, such as giving a bent diver oxygen, it won't cover treatment, which IWR is. They are vastly different. As a lay person, diagnosing and treating DCS using a controlled drug is illegal.

I am well versed on IWR both in practice and the legal concerns. It has been something that has come up when I was on the board of NAUI and also RSTC. To my knowledge only one agency has gotten behind doing training and promoting it.

Look, I see the value of IWR and for certain types of diving in the technical/exploration/expedition world it can be very well articulated and argued for something that should be a consideration. In the real world of laws, liability, insurance, torts, etc it is NOT anywhere near a cut and dried issue. You can call that fear mongering, others will call it being prudent.

 

[L13]

It is not either/or, but more likely both.

You're probably right.

 

[crofrog]

Good Samaritan laws (far from universal in all jurisdictions) will cover first aid, such as giving a bent diver oxygen, it won't cover treatment, which IWR is. They are vastly different. As a lay person, diagnosing and treating DCS using a controlled drug is illegal.

First aid is generally defined as providing emergency treatment and life support for people who are ill or injured, including dispensing of medication, before professional medical help is available...

If you look at the algorithm in the paper Dolette and Mitchel the victim has to be willing and able to participate.

ABO is not regulated by USP.

 

[Underwater Tourist]

In the interest of keeping this on topic, here is the thread that has the video where Simon Mitchell talks about IWR, his recommendations etc.

Simon Mitchell - Should divers treat DCS in-water?

Saw a recent youtube upload:

scubaboard.com

 

[cerich]

First aid is generally defined as providing emergency treatment and life support for people who are ill or injured, including dispensing of medication, before professional medical help is available...

If you look at the algorithm in the paper Dolette and Mitchel the victim has to be willing and able to participate.

ABO is not regulated by USP.

I am not looking to pick a fight here, but where are you pulling these assertions out of?

Dispensing of medication is not generally considered first aid. Oxygen is and because of specific first aid certifications have been developed to address, and now we are seeing Narcan. But even the difference between EMT's and paramedics you see medications as being a big issue. ABO is USP data sheet ABO

To David's and Simon's paper and consent, funny enough that is counter to consent for first aid by most good Samaritan legislation I am aware of. Just food for thought

But, if we are going to debate, I am curious what you experience/qualifications are to argue this

 

[L13]

I consider Gus and Woody friends, and the guide an aquantaince with whom I share many good friends. I could quibble on a hundred things that were done/not done the whole thing. But, the whole thing is not wildly outside the bell curve for real life in this type of diving It should be, it's not.

Are the YouTube videos representative of what they are really like? Or is it just a Youtube persona?

I'm very new to cave diving, but I find their public persona are a little scary, and would be nervous getting instruction from someone that thought it wasn't. I also don't think those persona's are the best to be the face of cave (and CCR) diving to the public. But maybe I'm just naive and that is what the community really is.

 

[34109411]

Are the YouTube videos representative of what they are really like? Or is it just a Youtube persona?

I'm very new to cave diving, but I find their public persona are a little scary, and would be nervous getting instruction from someone that thought it wasn't. I also don't think those persona's are the best to be the face of cave (and CCR) diving to the public. But maybe I'm just naive and that is what the community really is.

they are not cave diving instructor. i assume there is different style of person out there and different diver that goes along. From a technical and safety perspective both are accomplish diver. The community as you refer gather all kind of people and mentality.

 

[L13]

Perhaps you have not seen instances where breathing oxygen for a while completely resolves decompression symptoms? If a diver is ambulatory and tired and seems to be improving from oxygen, it is not so hard to believe that people may choose to stay on o2 and see what happens.

I have seen that.

In every case, there was no question of not diving the next day. It wasn't even be considered.

In every case DAN was called immediately and they were sent to a medical facility if symptoms did not permanently resolve within an hour (usually less) on O2.

Unless the descriptions of the symptoms in the YouTube video are wildly exaggerated, this was not a case of what you are describing. If they are exaggerating for Youtube effect, then everything should be taken with a gain of salt, and we shouldn't be jumping to blame DAN for the outcome.